Obamagate

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Re: Obamagate

Post by Damien Thorn @ Fri May 15, 2020 11:59 am

ypauly wrote:
Damien Thorn wrote:
Damien Thorn wrote:Can I ask ypauly, what constitutes "MSM" in your opinion? And what doesn't?

For me it is long establish major news channels like the BBC, SKY and overseas like CNN and reuters.
This article shows inherent bias of media outlets, calculated over a series of metrics:

http://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart
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Re: Obamagate

Post by ypauly @ Fri May 15, 2020 12:01 pm

Dirk wrote:MSM view:
Its all a load of bollocks and just Trump trying to distract from the fact that he is a useless tw@t.
No evidence at all, just a series of out of context facts strung together with some vague allegations to justify the word on the title of this topic

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/opinion/virus-rick-bright-obamagate.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sethcohen/2020/05/14/the-real-scandal-of-obamagate-unmasking-the-leadership-of-distraction/#5d2700c028bd

Who do we believe?
hmmm

Seriously at this point NOBODY

Look at the unmasking list from your article



EX6s5EXWAAACRo9.jpg
EX6s5EXWAAACRo9.jpg (200.74 KiB) Viewed 295 times




The dates are BEFORE the call and many of the recipients are not legally entitled to see the information
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Re: Obamagate

Post by ypauly @ Fri May 15, 2020 12:05 pm

Damien Thorn wrote:
ypauly wrote:
Damien Thorn wrote:
Damien Thorn wrote:Can I ask ypauly, what constitutes "MSM" in your opinion? And what doesn't?

For me it is long establish major news channels like the BBC, SKY and overseas like CNN and reuters.
This article shows inherent bias of media outlets, calculated over a series of metrics:

http://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart

That's interesting as I would put most of them where they are
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Re: Obamagate

Post by Damien Thorn @ Fri May 15, 2020 12:06 pm

This is an interesting article, again relating to the problem for us in establishing facts, instead of partisan opinion.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/berlinschoo ... facts/amp/

Please remind me ypauly, what is your issue with the reporting values of the mainstream media?
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Re: Obamagate

Post by ypauly @ Fri May 15, 2020 12:12 pm

Damien Thorn wrote:This is an interesting article, again relating to the problem for us in establishing facts, instead of partisan opinion.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/berlinschoo ... facts/amp/

Please remind me ypauly, what is your issue with the reporting values of the mainstream media?

It is they don't report on things that don't suit their particular political persuasion, they should for me report as neutrals rather than put their own slant on it especially the BBC as they are taxpayer funded.

Even a story like this should be reported or at least the facts and let the public decide while trying to uncover the whole story



I think if Obama and Trump were sat in a room to thrash it out they would discover they have both been had by nefarious forces and my money would be on the Clinton foundation


Despite the thread title, I did include the statement in my OP that we all like Obama, that includes me, I am not anti-Obama
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Re: Obamagate

Post by CJ+ @ Fri May 15, 2020 12:17 pm

ypauly wrote:The dates are BEFORE the call and many of the recipients are not legally entitled to see the information

Which recipients are not "legally entitled" (what does that mean, please?) to see the information? It seems to say right there that everyone involved was authorized, that any requests to "unmask" (that can't possibly be the correct terminology, can it? very dramatic) were put through a standard review process, and here's a list of people who are all authorized.
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Re: Obamagate

Post by CJ+ @ Fri May 15, 2020 12:20 pm

ypauly wrote:I think if Obama and Trump were sat in a room to thrash it out they would discover they have both been had by nefarious forces and my money would be on the Clinton foundation

And yet, despite both of these people having been actual Presidents of the US - the most powerful position on the planet - with all the resources available to them, involving at various times control of the entire machinery of state, this still ends up being in the domain of nutters on YouTube.

I think the chemtrails are working on you, ypauly.
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Re: Obamagate

Post by minimoog @ Fri May 15, 2020 12:39 pm

thekungfury wrote:I won't check but I'd put money on him posting Fox News links at some point, aka the most watched news channel.


Most watched cable news channel, but not the most watched news. The likes of ABC, NBC and CBS evening news programs all have audiences around 2x-3x that of Fox.
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Re: Obamagate

Post by ypauly @ Fri May 15, 2020 12:43 pm

CJ+ wrote:
ypauly wrote:The dates are BEFORE the call and many of the recipients are not legally entitled to see the information

Which recipients are not "legally entitled" (what does that mean, please?) to see the information? It seems to say right there that everyone involved was authorized, that any requests to "unmask" (that can't possibly be the correct terminology, can it? very dramatic) were put through a standard review process, and here's a list of people who are all authorized.
this is where things are explained better in the video
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Re: Obamagate

Post by ypauly @ Fri May 15, 2020 1:01 pm

CJ+ wrote:
ypauly wrote:I think if Obama and Trump were sat in a room to thrash it out they would discover they have both been had by nefarious forces and my money would be on the Clinton foundation

And yet, despite both of these people having been actual Presidents of the US - the most powerful position on the planet - with all the resources available to them, involving at various times control of the entire machinery of state, this still ends up being in the domain of nutters on YouTube.



Makes you wonder whose backs they scratched to get there and how favours were returned
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Re: Obamagate

Post by manfromdelmonte @ Fri May 15, 2020 1:11 pm

ypauly wrote:
CJ+ wrote:
ypauly wrote:The dates are BEFORE the call and many of the recipients are not legally entitled to see the information

Which recipients are not "legally entitled" (what does that mean, please?) to see the information? It seems to say right there that everyone involved was authorized, that any requests to "unmask" (that can't possibly be the correct terminology, can it? very dramatic) were put through a standard review process, and here's a list of people who are all authorized.
this is where things are explained better in the video


This video makes a lot more sense and, although fairly long, is well worth watching.

https://youtu.be/B-N1yJyrQRY
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Re: Obamagate

Post by Damien Thorn @ Fri May 15, 2020 1:36 pm

ypauly wrote:
CJ+ wrote:
ypauly wrote:I think if Obama and Trump were sat in a room to thrash it out they would discover they have both been had by nefarious forces and my money would be on the Clinton foundation

And yet, despite both of these people having been actual Presidents of the US - the most powerful position on the planet - with all the resources available to them, involving at various times control of the entire machinery of state, this still ends up being in the domain of nutters on YouTube.



Makes you wonder whose backs they scratched to get there and how favours were returned


Does it?

It makes me wonder why we don't see many articles on mainstream centrist fact-checked media reporting extensive high level political corruption.

My conclusion is that there isn't anything veritable or empirical to report. Simply hearsay and opinion.

In your own words you class the BBC and Reuters as unbiased elements of mainstream media. I agree. And i would be very happy to engage with points you can make derived from those sources.

I'm so glad we've finally reached a point where we can sensibly discuss reporting we both accept as unbiased.
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Re: Obamagate

Post by thekungfury @ Fri May 15, 2020 1:39 pm

minimoog wrote:
thekungfury wrote:I won't check but I'd put money on him posting Fox News links at some point, aka the most watched news channel.


Most watched cable news channel, but not the most watched news. The likes of ABC, NBC and CBS evening news programs all have audiences around 2x-3x that of Fox.

Reassuring, even if I'm not really sure what cable news channel means differently to the others.
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Re: Obamagate

Post by ypauly @ Fri May 15, 2020 1:52 pm

Damien Thorn wrote:
ypauly wrote:
CJ+ wrote:
ypauly wrote:I think if Obama and Trump were sat in a room to thrash it out they would discover they have both been had by nefarious forces and my money would be on the Clinton foundation

And yet, despite both of these people having been actual Presidents of the US - the most powerful position on the planet - with all the resources available to them, involving at various times control of the entire machinery of state, this still ends up being in the domain of nutters on YouTube.



Makes you wonder whose backs they scratched to get there and how favours were returned


Does it?

It makes me wonder why we don't see many articles on mainstream centrist fact-checked media reporting extensive high level political corruption.

My conclusion is that there isn't anything veritable or empirical to report. Simply hearsay and opinion.

In your own words you class the BBC and Reuters as unbiased elements of mainstream media. I agree. And i would be very happy to engage with points you can make derived from those sources.

I'm so glad we've finally reached a point where we can sensibly discuss reporting we both accept as unbiased.

The MSM like the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52622038 are so busy putting their own spin, Obama's spin and repeating the false claims about Trumps collusion that they completely leave out what Obamagate is about and the unmaking requests e.t.c I posted above, they are not just missing the real story it looks like they are trying to deflect from it.


Obama and Biden may have been unwittingly dragged into something but there is a story there and organisations like the BBC should be trying to find it but they can't even bring themselves to report facts just because they are not anti-Trump and the real criminals are laughing while another administration gets tarred
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Re: Obamagate

Post by thekungfury @ Fri May 15, 2020 1:55 pm

Do you think he believes the scandal was about water?
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Re: Obamagate

Post by Strawman @ Fri May 15, 2020 2:00 pm

In a Rosarch test if you show Trump a wave shaped blot he says "sports"
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Re: Obamagate

Post by Damien Thorn @ Fri May 15, 2020 2:10 pm

ypauly wrote:
Damien Thorn wrote:
ypauly wrote:
Damien Thorn wrote:This article shows inherent bias of media outlets, calculated over a series of metrics:

http://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart

That's interesting as I would put most of them where they are


So you do agree that the BBC is unbiased?

ypauly wrote:The MSM like the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52622038 are so busy putting their own spin, Obama's spin and repeating the false claims about Trumps collusion that they completely leave out what Obamagate is about and the unmaking requests e.t.c I posted above, they are not just missing the real story it looks like they are trying to deflect from it.


Obama and Biden may have been unwittingly dragged into something but there is a story there and organisations like the BBC should be trying to find it but they can't even bring themselves to report facts just because they are not anti-Trump and the real criminals are laughing while another administration gets tarred


Oh!

I've read that BBC article you've linked. Can you please point out to me where the BBC "are so busy putting their own spin, Obama's spin and repeating the false claims about Trumps collusion"?

Could you also explain what convinces you that the "real story" is something other than what's being reported? What motive would the BBC have for deliberately trying to deflect from this "real story", do you think?

Thank you.
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Re: Obamagate

Post by CJ+ @ Fri May 15, 2020 2:10 pm

ypauly wrote:The MSM like the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52622038 are so busy putting their own spin [citation needed], Obama's spin [citation needed] and repeating the false claims about Trumps collusion [citation needed] that they completely leave out what Obamagate is about [citation needed] and the unmaking requests e.t.c I posted above, they are not just missing the real story it looks like they are trying to deflect from it.[citation needed]

One thing at a time. Half the problem with talking about this stuff with conspiracy theorists like you is that any given point ends having half a dozen things dragged into it.

I've added red bits for all the things you've conflated into one sentence. Each one would take a little while to unpick and resolve. This tactic - whether intentional or otherwise - is known as a Gish Gallop, aka "drowning your opponent in shit".
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Re: Obamagate

Post by ypauly @ Fri May 15, 2020 2:28 pm

CJ+ wrote:
ypauly wrote:The MSM like the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52622038 are so busy putting their own spin [citation needed], Obama's spin [citation needed] and repeating the false claims about Trumps collusion [citation needed] that they completely leave out what Obamagate is about [citation needed] and the unmaking requests e.t.c I posted above, they are not just missing the real story it looks like they are trying to deflect from it.[citation needed]

One thing at a time. Half the problem with talking about this stuff with conspiracy theorists like you is that any given point ends having half a dozen things dragged into it.

I've added red bits for all the things you've conflated into one sentence. Each one would take a little while to unpick and resolve. This tactic - whether intentional or otherwise - is known as a Gish Gallop, aka "drowning your opponent in shit".

All citations are in the video you won't watch



And I am not going to type an hour long of dialect.



Happy for the thread to be closed as it was about the interesting video I posted
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Re: Obamagate

Post by CJ+ @ Fri May 15, 2020 2:53 pm

ypauly wrote:Happy for the thread to be closed as it was about the interestingvideo I posted

Did you forget you're not on PH any more?
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Re: Obamagate

Post by ypauly @ Fri May 15, 2020 2:54 pm

CJ+ wrote:
ypauly wrote:Happy for the thread to be closed as it was about the interestingvideo I posted

Did you forget you're not on PH any more?

Oh yes :hehe:
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Re: Obamagate

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri May 15, 2020 5:24 pm

Strawman wrote:In a Rosarch test if you show Trump a wave shaped blot he says "sports"


Laugh!
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Re: Obamagate

Post by manfromdelmonte @ Fri May 15, 2020 7:12 pm

ypauly wrote:
Happy for the thread to be closed as it was about the interesting video I posted


Until you've watched the video I posted above, I don't think we can call this thread over.
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Re: Obamagate

Post by ypauly @ Fri May 15, 2020 11:15 pm

manfromdelmonte wrote:
ypauly wrote:
Happy for the thread to be closed as it was about the interesting video I posted


Until you've watched the video I posted above, I don't think we can call this thread over.

I love leeks and can't stand to see them suffer such abuse, that video is just proof the democrats enjoy vegetable abuse, I bet it was Obama that pulled it from its bed
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Re: Obamagate

Post by ypauly @ Fri May 15, 2020 11:36 pm

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Re: Obamagate

Post by Damien Thorn @ Sat May 16, 2020 8:41 am

I really like her, but she's a massive whataboutist.
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Re: Obamagate

Post by WD40 @ Fri May 22, 2020 5:41 pm

ypauly wrote:
Damien Thorn wrote:
Damien Thorn wrote:Can I ask ypauly, what constitutes "MSM" in your opinion? And what doesn't?

For me it is long establish major news channels like the BBC, SKY and overseas like CNN and reuters.


I always think of the phrase MSM in a similar way that practitioners and advocates of alternative medicine refer to "mainstream medicine" in that disparaging way to try and boost their own credibility.

What do we call "alternative medicine" that stands up to scientific enquiry and is proven to be efficacious? So it is with "MSM" and "alternative media" for me.

There's usually a reason that a particular source of news isn't considered part of the mainstream (which itself is often ludicrous enough)...
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