Some Brexit

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Some Brexit

Post by Rod Rammage @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:17 am

Parliament must vote on whether the UK can start the process of leaving the EU, the High Court has ruled.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37857785


I love Brexit. It's the most interesting thing to have happened in ages.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:22 am

Today is a good day to go poking the nest of vipers on PH with a long pointy stick.

There is much wailing. Ironically similar to mourning at an Islamic funeral.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Rod Rammage @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:26 am

Govt are appealling, it says.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:30 am

Inevitably.

Question is whether they will win. Or want to win.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by CJ+ @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:44 am

Rod Rammage wrote:Govt are appealing, it says.

They're really not. Have you seen them? Not with span's, and she hasn't even got one!
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by desertweasel @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:59 am

If it didn't affect me so badly (currency exchange and uncertainty as to whether we will be allowed to live in the EU) it would be fascinating, as it is it's a clusterfcuk of the greatest order.
It is living history though, now whether it is a footnote or major turning point remains to be seen.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Rod Rammage @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:07 pm

desertweasel wrote:it's a clusterfcuk of the greatest order.


No it isn't though.

And as remainers are fond of saying (when it suits them) - brexit hasn't happened yet.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:22 pm

But what does Brexit mean?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:25 pm

Greg66 wrote:But what does Brexit mean?

It's a portmanteau of Britain and exit.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Rod Rammage @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:25 pm

:shrug:
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by dirtyboy @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:25 pm

May "You voted for leave, I would have ensured we did leave, but your MPs voted against it"

I don't particularly want to leave, but I've come round to the idea, but if MPs vote against a referendum, how does that sit with even the most ardent remain supporter? I'm not comfortable with it at all.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Damien Thorn @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:38 pm

I thought that even from the earliest rumblings of the possibility of a referendum we all knew the referendum was to advise the will of the electorate, and that article 50 couldn't be initiated without a parlimentary vote. Even though seemingly that requirement was swept aside in the immediate aftermath of the referendum, isn't what's now happening exactly how it was known it was going to happen well before the actual vote?

How is any of this a surprise?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by span @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:47 pm

dirtyboy wrote:May "You voted for leave, I would have ensured we did leave, but your MPs voted against it"

I don't particularly want to leave, but I've come round to the idea, but if MPs vote against a referendum, how does that sit with even the most ardent remain supporter? I'm not comfortable with it at all.

I could live with it.

If 'asking the people' was an established and relied-upon element of our political system then I might feel differently, but it's not, and for good reason. I can't muster up much respect for that referendum and I don't see its result as synonymous with democracy as we know it.

And that's aside from the bollocks promises given, and the slim majority, and the fact I was really cross my side lost.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Turntable @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:47 pm

dirtyboy wrote:May "You voted for leave, I would have ensured we did leave, but your MPs voted against it"

I don't particularly want to leave, but I've come round to the idea, but if MPs vote against a referendum, how does that sit with even the most ardent remain supporter? I'm not comfortable with it at all.


Well I do think the reality of post-vote Brexit is completely unrecognisable from the rhetoric in the build up.
Major things have become apparent that no one was aware of at voting time:
1) There is no money back
2) The EU will not actually clamour to deal with us at any cost - in fact the opposite is likely especially following the recent Canada debacle
3) The cost in just the devalued pound is so catastrophically enormous that it before we even start measuring economic gains/losses, we are starting from hundreds of billions less than pre-brexit
4) Noone has actually the faintest idea about how to go about this. The complexity of Brexiting is completely unrecognisable from the rhetoric

So whilst I feel your discomfort, I equally feel it is justified.
I also believe that were the vote today it would swing the other way. That is the most compelling justification of all. I no longer think the 'will of the people' is Brexit.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Turntable @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 pm

Also, if the campaigns were re-run, what would the Leave campaign say now they admitted all the other stuff was likes?

"Right we should leave because....er.......take control something something. Borders back. It's just not right. something."
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by desertweasel @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:04 pm

Rod Rammage wrote:
desertweasel wrote:it's a clusterfcuk of the greatest order.


No it isn't though.

And as remainers are fond of saying (when it suits them) - brexit hasn't happened yet.


As I was talking about the level of the pound and the massive uncertainty over freedom of movement, neither of those things require Brexit to happen, the speculation is enough to have a real impact.

The pound would in no way be at the level it is now if the vote and the hard brexit rhetoric had not taken place.

The clusterfcuk is for our personal circumstances, appreciate it is of little concern to others though the inflation that is to come will be.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by span @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:11 pm

desertweasel wrote:The clusterfcuk is for our personal circumstances

Yes they're my circs too, DW. I thought the other day how frustrating it would have been if a remain vote would somehow have been the financially terrible option for us, I would still have to have voted for it, but so angrily.

In the meantime I always feel it undermines my Remain argument because people think I'm jsut cross because now I'm poor(er).
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Deuteronomy @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:13 pm

Turntable wrote:
dirtyboy wrote:May "You voted for leave, I would have ensured we did leave, but your MPs voted against it"

I don't particularly want to leave, but I've come round to the idea, but if MPs vote against a referendum, how does that sit with even the most ardent remain supporter? I'm not comfortable with it at all.


Well I do think the reality of post-vote Brexit is completely unrecognisable from the rhetoric in the build up.
Major things have become apparent that no one was aware of at voting time:
1) There is no money back
2) The EU will not actually clamour to deal with us at any cost - in fact the opposite is likely especially following the recent Canada debacle
3) The cost in just the devalued pound is so catastrophically enormous that it before we even start measuring economic gains/losses, we are starting from hundreds of billions less than pre-brexit
4) Noone has actually the faintest idea about how to go about this. The complexity of Brexiting is completely unrecognisable from the rhetoric

So whilst I feel your discomfort, I equally feel it is justified.
I also believe that were the vote today it would swing the other way. That is the most compelling justification of all. I no longer think the 'will of the people' is Brexit.


Very nod.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by CJ+ @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:16 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:
Turntable wrote:
dirtyboy wrote:May "You voted for leave, I would have ensured we did leave, but your MPs voted against it"

I don't particularly want to leave, but I've come round to the idea, but if MPs vote against a referendum, how does that sit with even the most ardent remain supporter? I'm not comfortable with it at all.


Well I do think the reality of post-vote Brexit is completely unrecognisable from the rhetoric in the build up.
Major things have become apparent that no one was aware of at voting time:
1) There is no money back
2) The EU will not actually clamour to deal with us at any cost - in fact the opposite is likely especially following the recent Canada debacle
3) The cost in just the devalued pound is so catastrophically enormous that it before we even start measuring economic gains/losses, we are starting from hundreds of billions less than pre-brexit
4) Noone has actually the faintest idea about how to go about this. The complexity of Brexiting is completely unrecognisable from the rhetoric

So whilst I feel your discomfort, I equally feel it is justified.
I also believe that were the vote today it would swing the other way. That is the most compelling justification of all. I no longer think the 'will of the people' is Brexit.


Very nod.

Nod2
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:21 pm

Over there turbobloke mas been remarkably quiet this morning.

I think he might be writing to Judges to tell them where they got it wrong.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by CJ+ @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:22 pm

Greg66 wrote:Over there turbobloke mas been remarkably quiet this morning.

I think he might be writing to Judges to tell them where they got it wrong.

Be fair; he has to make some graphs first. And putting them through all those JPEG filters - well, these things take time.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by desertweasel @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:39 pm

span wrote:
desertweasel wrote:The clusterfcuk is for our personal circumstances

Yes they're my circs too, DW. I thought the other day how frustrating it would have been if a remain vote would somehow have been the financially terrible option for us, I would still have to have voted for it, but so angrily.

In the meantime I always feel it undermines my Remain argument because people think I'm jsut cross because now I'm poor(er).


The poorer thing I can live with, it is a pain but the loss of freedom of movement would be a disaster for us and the millions of others living and working in the EU, still selfish I guess but this is an opportunity that the next generation may never have especially if the hard brexit crap is followed through
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by dirtyboy @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:36 pm

Turntable wrote:
dirtyboy wrote:May "You voted for leave, I would have ensured we did leave, but your MPs voted against it"

I don't particularly want to leave, but I've come round to the idea, but if MPs vote against a referendum, how does that sit with even the most ardent remain supporter? I'm not comfortable with it at all.


Well I do think the reality of post-vote Brexit is completely unrecognisable from the rhetoric in the build up.
Major things have become apparent that no one was aware of at voting time:
1) There is no money back
2) The EU will not actually clamour to deal with us at any cost - in fact the opposite is likely especially following the recent Canada debacle
3) The cost in just the devalued pound is so catastrophically enormous that it before we even start measuring economic gains/losses, we are starting from hundreds of billions less than pre-brexit
4) Noone has actually the faintest idea about how to go about this. The complexity of Brexiting is completely unrecognisable from the rhetoric

So whilst I feel your discomfort, I equally feel it is justified.
I also believe that were the vote today it would swing the other way. That is the most compelling justification of all. I no longer think the 'will of the people' is Brexit.


Oh that's a huge point well made. The whole thing was nothing more than a sales pitch by agenda seekers so yes, agree entirely.

However, it's a big one, just imagine, for one second...the backlash from Brexiteers. It'd be soul destroying. I'd have to leave Facebook for sure.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by ttwiggy @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:55 pm

Greg66 wrote:Over there turbobloke mas been remarkably quiet this morning.

I think he might be writing to Judges to tell them where they got it wrong.


It's possible that his wife hasn't given him the news yet after what happened last time.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Dirk @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:25 pm

My concern if mps voted to remain would be what the impact would be about the political impact. I fear it would encourage the rise of UKIP and other "anti-establishment" figures until we get a PM as stupid as Trump
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Rod Rammage @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:28 pm

Dirk wrote:My concern if mps voted to remain would be what the impact would be about the political impact. I fear it would encourage the rise of UKIP and other "anti-establishment" figures until we get a PM as stupid as Trump


Nothing would happen. People are too apathetic. It'd all blow over in 6 months. Then in future you'd say "cor, member when we voted to leave the EU but we never done it?"

And then you'd say "cor yeah that were a right palaver weren't it!"

"What a waste of time."

"Still, no use crying over spilled milk."

"So they say Mike, so they say."

"Cheers Steve."

"Cheers."
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:29 pm

Rod Rammage wrote:
Dirk wrote:My concern if mps voted to remain would be what the impact would be about the political impact. I fear it would encourage the rise of UKIP and other "anti-establishment" figures until we get a PM as stupid as Trump


Nothing would happen. People are too apathetic. It'd all blow over in 6 months. Then in future you'd say "cor, member when we voted to leave the EU but we never done it?"

And then you'd say "cor yeah that were a right palaver weren't it!"

"What a waste of time."

"Still, no use crying over spilled milk."

"So they say Mike, so they say."

"Cheers Steve."

"Cheers."

Laugh. That's exactly how it would be. People, eh?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Rod Rammage @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:31 pm

Laugh.

What are we like?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by S1K @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:36 pm

The Daily Mail has its knickers in a twist today about the three judges who decided that parliament should have a vote on Brexit. One of these treacherous fiends is a former Olympic fencer if you can believe it.

Image
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Disastrous @ Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:39 pm

A fcuking fencer?? I knew it! Those rotten bastards!

That's why I quite that game, you know. I was starting to make a name for myself and it didn't take long until I was being approached by fencing's inner circle. They were all 'corrupt euro deal' this and 'suck of this dignitary' that. So I turned my back on that world 4 eva.
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