Some Brexit

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Re: Some Brexit

Post by S1K @ Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:56 pm

Nick Boles crossed the floor tonight. That doesn’t happen very often.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politi ... ote-defeat
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by span @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:18 am

Frik wrote:None of tonight's options got more than 37 Tory votes. All so they can say none of the options got more than May's deal on Friday.

I truely hate this government.

Just awful.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:02 am

Paralysed Government; less than useless Opposition; and a bunch of rabble rousing supporting actors (that fat turd from the SNP who wears a waistcoat over his giant belly is one person in particular I would happily consign to the woodchipper).

It is so depressing: this is the UK, standing on the stepping stone between EU membership and taking Our Rightful Place On The World Stage.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by tanglerat @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:11 am

Greg66 wrote:Paralysed Government; less than useless Opposition; and a bunch of rabble rousing supporting actors (that fat turd from the SNP who wears a waistcoat over his giant belly is one person in particular I would happily consign to the woodchipper).

It is so depressing: this is the UK, standing on the stepping stone between EU membership and taking Our Rightful Place On The World Stage.


Poor old UK.

Actually, on the world stage this isn't the imagined humiliation at all, but I think the UK is going to find it's place in the world order is a bit more humble than the gammons expect.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Frik @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:34 am

Good. Exceptionalism and nostalgia are this country's worst traits. A large dose of realism is long overdue.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Strawman @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:30 am

The UK inside the EU has an important role it was seen by many global companies as the gateway to the EU; English speaking, second only to Germany in terms of economy, has better armed forces, good universities etc. Outside (in a hard Brexit) as the world coalesces into three main blocks (n.America, EU, China) it is only a bit player.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by tanglerat @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:08 am

Strawman wrote:


By the way, I forgot to mention - if you need anything imported into Ireland from the UK post Brexit and don't want to be bothered by all that new red tape and paperwork and declarations and tax and levies and duties and stuff, just drop me a note. The startup is taking shape nicely.

Say no more. Blind horses etc.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by desertweasel @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:10 am

Strawman wrote:The UK inside the EU has an important role it was seen by many global companies as the gateway to the EU; English speaking, second only to Germany in terms of economy, has better armed forces, good universities etc. Outside (in a hard Brexit) as the world coalesces into three main blocks (n.America, EU, China) it is only a bit player.


I think it is worse than that, the UK will become irrelevant. One of the things that has always amazed me when I return to the UK is the wide choice of consumer goods, foods, cars etc and their generally reasonable costs. Having lived all over the world that is much rarer than most people in the UK would imagine, becoming a small outpost will inevitably mean higher prices and less choice of quality goods and food, the currency rate alone will kill most imports.

Sure we will be flooded with feedlot beef and Chinese scooters but the days of easy availability of quality goods will likely be over, at least at a cost we are prepared to pay. The trouble is that we will be killing our own food production and manufacturing businesses, in the name of WTO sovreeeenty, and replacing them with what?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by CJ+ @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:14 am

desertweasel wrote:The trouble is that we will be killing our own food production and manufacturing businesses, in the name of WTO sovreeeenty, and replacing them with what?

BLUE MOTHERFUCKIN PASSPORTS.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Turntable @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:17 am

Frik wrote:Good. Exceptionalism and nostalgia are this country's worst traits. A large dose of realism is long overdue.


I was thinking about this the other day and how these morons hark back to the 'good old days' and was trying to understand why people long for the days when the best jobs were working in coal mines and having national strikes and I suddenly had an epiphany.
These people are just nostalgic for childhood where everything is better because you don't worry about stuff and someone makes your dinner for you. They mistakenly think that immigrants and maroon passports have made them grow up
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by span @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:45 am

Turntable wrote:
Frik wrote:Good. Exceptionalism and nostalgia are this country's worst traits. A large dose of realism is long overdue.


I was thinking about this the other day and how these morons hark back to the 'good old days' and was trying to understand why people long for the days when the best jobs were working in coal mines and having national strikes and I suddenly had an epiphany.
These people are just nostalgic for childhood where everything is better because you don't worry about stuff and someone makes your dinner for you. They mistakenly think that immigrants and maroon passports have made them grow up

I agree. It's more than just remembering childhood fondly, I think humans by nature tend to feel nostalgic for any time passed. Past. Parsed? I watch things from the stupid 90s on telly and remember that as a simpler time where streets were safe and people swore less and there was generally more promise in the air.

My parents never stopped moaning about how awful it was in the seventies but now my mother harks back to it with great fondness.

Also, nostalgia has been a bit trendy since the crash - all bunting and ooo the Queen and semi-ironically doing knitting. But it's way more fun having an allotment to be like Nigel Slater than needing one to stave off the rickets, or whatever they used to get in the olden days.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by minimoog @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:34 pm

No doubt in my mind that immigration is a biggy. For sure there are now areas that are majority minorities (ha) which weren't when your typical Brexiter was young. They resent this, for whatever reason, and have swallowed the lie that it's the EU's fault (even though we have near-total control over our own immigration policy) and conveniently forget that most of the people they resent don't even come from or even via the EU. This ignorance and resentment is of course what Farage and Yaxley-Lennon thrive on.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Turntable @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:51 pm

minimoog wrote:No doubt in my mind that immigration is a biggy. For sure there are now areas that are majority minorities (ha) which weren't when your typical Brexiter was young. They resent this, for whatever reason, and have swallowed the lie that it's the EU's fault (even though we have near-total control over our own immigration policy) and conveniently forget that most of the people they resent don't even come from or even via the EU. This ignorance and resentment is of course what Farage and Yaxley-Lennon thrive on.


Agreed. Its also what the tabloids use to sell papers, and thousands of websites to get more clicks.
Selling fear, paranoia and hatred has become a giant unstoppable behemoth.
I find it really worrying.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by desertweasel @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:11 pm

Turntable wrote:
minimoog wrote:No doubt in my mind that immigration is a biggy. For sure there are now areas that are majority minorities (ha) which weren't when your typical Brexiter was young. They resent this, for whatever reason, and have swallowed the lie that it's the EU's fault (even though we have near-total control over our own immigration policy) and conveniently forget that most of the people they resent don't even come from or even via the EU. This ignorance and resentment is of course what Farage and Yaxley-Lennon thrive on.


Agreed. Its also what the tabloids use to sell papers, and thousands of websites to get more clicks.
Selling fear, paranoia and hatred has become a giant unstoppable behemoth.
I find it really worrying.


Newspapers, or rather their online versions, have certainly become addicted to fear, spreading it through Facebook provides a way to amplify it. I have some acquaintances that I occasionally switch on in FB just to see what the fcuk they are viewing and posting, it is truly terrifying. This is how this myth of replacement comes about that led to Christchurch.

I never understood the hatred of Poles and others by these goons, they are after all white and Christian, (more Christian than most English people for sure) but time and again it seems that they blame the EU for Muslim immigration?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Strawman @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:01 pm

desertweasel wrote:I never understood the hatred of Poles and others by these goons, they are after all white and Christian, (more Christian than most English people for sure) but time and again it seems that they blame the EU for Muslim immigration?



I don't think much thought has gone into it, they've been fed lies by Kippers and the media (Daily Mail, Sky, The Sun etc.). Can't get a school place nearby for your kid? Don't blame eight years of austerity policies by the government, blame immigrants. Can't get a doctors appointment etc.

I hate ignorant people who feel empowered by the likes they get on facebook into deciding they have something that needs repeating to a wider audience and never examining their own assumptions. A prime example I read today was Katie Price & Mum now on GoodMorningBritain. Mum, who currently lives in Spain, voted #LEAVE because she’s upset roads in Spain are in great condition and “we are paying for them” The last time I was in Spain the motorways were mostly toll roads.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by S1K @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:07 pm

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-probe-after-malicious-devices-left-on-railway-lines-are-linked-to-brexit-a4107461.html


Police have launched an urgent investigation after two "malicious" devices were placed on railway tracks in what officers believe was a "pro-Brexit" sabotage attempt.

The devices, which were "intended to cause disruption" to train services, were identified by Network Rail within the last two weeks.

The saboteurs had "put their life at risk" to plant the obstructions, British Transport Police said.

Officers believe their attempts at sabotage "relate to Britain's exit from the European Union".

A note attached to one device said "leave means leave" and vowed to "bring this country to its knees if we don't leave,"


Crazy stuff.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:32 pm

Turntable wrote:Agreed. Its also what the tabloids use to sell papers, and thousands of websites to get more clicks.
Selling fear, paranoia and hatred has become a giant unstoppable behemoth.
I find it really worrying.

The tabloids and social media are absolutely to blame. I don’t think it’s anything new though, just the distribution model has changed.

Red tops have always picked an enemy to rally people against. Let everyone believe that the reason their lives are shit is due to someone or something else. The EU propaganda dates back decades. From bendy banana lies through to the £350m bus lies. People are eager to believe and don’t question what they’re told and so it will be forever.

You have to question why the tabloids do it? What have the owners got to gain from Brexit? Beyond their general racism/xenophobia I guess it has to be power and/or money.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by S1K @ Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:40 pm

Money pure and simple teeks.

Lord Rothermere, Dirty Desmond, Murdoch, the Barclay brothers...what links all these men? A desire for more and more money. A hundred million isn’t enough, a billion isn’t enough. They couldn’t give a shit about the consequences of the lies they print so long as they can get another zero on the end of their bank balance. cnuts the lot of them.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by whyohwhy @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:42 am

I think some of the anger against the Polish community is that some have seen their pay reduce, lorry driving for instance.

Class one drivers were in short supply so wages rose considerably, now many drivers are Polish. In fact one firm near here is 90% Polish so wages are back down again. So it is perceived that they have stolen their jobs and reduced the value. You then get the line that the Poles send all the money home, and with the lack of communication between the two camps bad feelings arise.

The Poles also do a lot of farm work, which most around here wouldn’t do, certainly not for the money they pay and without them we would have a real problem but that’s just not understood. Or just not accepted.

Very sad, but we have always had those who are narrow minded, I think we just hear more from them because social media has given them a more far reaching voice.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by DI Burnside @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:15 am

I've avoided talking about it with people for the most part IRL, mainly because it's too divisive a subject. Lately though I've become so tired and intolerant of hearing people declaring what should happen as though they're some sort of authority on the subject I've started biting. With almost one exception the conversations all go along the same lines as the conversation I had with my Mother at the weekend.

Mum: We voted leave so we should just leave.
Me: Apart from "We" didn't, why ?
Mum: I'm sick of being told what to do.
Me: In what way ?
Mum: All the laws they tell us we have to have.
Me: What laws ?
Mum: All of them.
Me: Tell me one law that in any way affects your life that has been imposed on us by the EU.
Mum: Well not me in particular, the country.
Me: Ok then, tell me one law that in any way affects the country that has been imposed on us by the EU.
Mum:

The almost one exception was a friend who owns a haulage firm who told me he has to comply with a load of rules, regulations, etc that cost a fortune to be able to operate in mainland Europe. It's only an almost though as he doesn't operate in mainland Europe so doesn't need to comply with a load of rules, regulations, etc that cost a fortune to be able to operate in mainland Europe.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:37 am

thekungfury wrote:
Turntable wrote:Agreed. Its also what the tabloids use to sell papers, and thousands of websites to get more clicks.
Selling fear, paranoia and hatred has become a giant unstoppable behemoth.
I find it really worrying.

The tabloids and social media are absolutely to blame. I don’t think it’s anything new though, just the distribution model has changed.

Red tops have always picked an enemy to rally people against. Let everyone believe that the reason their lives are shit is due to someone or something else. The EU propaganda dates back decades. From bendy banana lies through to the £350m bus lies. People are eager to believe and don’t question what they’re told and so it will be forever.

You have to question why the tabloids do it? What have the owners got to gain from Brexit? Beyond their general racism/xenophobia I guess it has to be power and/or money.


Do you think the tabloids really still have the influence that they used to have? I don't think they do. They days when The Sun ran a front page on the eve of a GE asking the last person to turn the lights off should Kinnock win are long gone. Papers come out for particular parties still but the influence that has is a fraction of what it used to be, because people don't turn to newspapers so much any more, and even less do they turn to newspapers to be given ideas about what to think.

Instead we seem to have things like youtube which offer a huge spectrum of points of view, one of which is bound to provide support to whatever uninformed off the cuff reaction a person happens to have to any given event.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by whyohwhy @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:37 am

Greg66 wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
Turntable wrote:Agreed. Its also what the tabloids use to sell papers, and thousands of websites to get more clicks.
Selling fear, paranoia and hatred has become a giant unstoppable behemoth.
I find it really worrying.

The tabloids and social media are absolutely to blame. I don’t think it’s anything new though, just the distribution model has changed.

Red tops have always picked an enemy to rally people against. Let everyone believe that the reason their lives are shit is due to someone or something else. The EU propaganda dates back decades. From bendy banana lies through to the £350m bus lies. People are eager to believe and don’t question what they’re told and so it will be forever.

You have to question why the tabloids do it? What have the owners got to gain from Brexit? Beyond their general racism/xenophobia I guess it has to be power and/or money.


Do you think the tabloids really still have the influence that they used to have? I don't think they do. They days when The Sun ran a front page on the eve of a GE asking the last person to turn the lights off should Kinnock win are long gone. Papers come out for particular parties still but the influence that has is a fraction of what it used to be, because people don't turn to newspapers so much any more, and even less do they turn to newspapers to be given ideas about what to think.

Instead we seem to have things like youtube which offer a huge spectrum of points of view, one of which is bound to provide support to whatever uninformed off the cuff reaction a person happens to have to any given event.


Think you are right about print copies, but The Daily Mail is free online, and things like Apple News, give a selection of news including the Express which is even more Brexit biased than the Mail.

You have to pay for the Telegraph and Times so free news gets more general coverage.

Add in Facebook etc and you can get quite a biased viewpoint. I think mobile news is far more able to influence now.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by tanglerat @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:59 am

What's this I'm hearing about May onboarding Corbyn to get her/any deal over the line, thus sidelining the DUP and bringing a customs check in down the Irish Sea?

That'll properly shag up all my plans for a cross-border smuggling enterprise!
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Il Duce @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:01 am

You still get shit news even if you pay for it.

The Times ran a story last week concerning Europe stopping changing the clocks twice a year, which said "if we stay in Europe we shall LOSE BRITISH summer time"

FFS! How many times have they published an article saying it should be abolished?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:14 am

Greg66 wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
Turntable wrote:Agreed. Its also what the tabloids use to sell papers, and thousands of websites to get more clicks.
Selling fear, paranoia and hatred has become a giant unstoppable behemoth.
I find it really worrying.

The tabloids and social media are absolutely to blame. I don’t think it’s anything new though, just the distribution model has changed.

Red tops have always picked an enemy to rally people against. Let everyone believe that the reason their lives are shit is due to someone or something else. The EU propaganda dates back decades. From bendy banana lies through to the £350m bus lies. People are eager to believe and don’t question what they’re told and so it will be forever.

You have to question why the tabloids do it? What have the owners got to gain from Brexit? Beyond their general racism/xenophobia I guess it has to be power and/or money.


Do you think the tabloids really still have the influence that they used to have? I don't think they do. They days when The Sun ran a front page on the eve of a GE asking the last person to turn the lights off should Kinnock win are long gone. Papers come out for particular parties still but the influence that has is a fraction of what it used to be, because people don't turn to newspapers so much any more, and even less do they turn to newspapers to be given ideas about what to think.

Instead we seem to have things like youtube which offer a huge spectrum of points of view, one of which is bound to provide support to whatever uninformed off the cuff reaction a person happens to have to any given event.

The tabloids still sell in vast numbers. DM & Sun sell 1.4m papers, 10x the Guardian. Their online reach is vast. Mail Online is the most visited news site, not just in UK, the most visited on Earth.

The Mail particularly are relentless with their agenda. With this shoved in people's faces day after day, year after year, I can understand why people start to believe it.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:17 am

DI Burnside wrote:Mum: I'm sick of being told what to do.
Me: In what way ?
Mum: All the laws they tell us we have to have.
Me: What laws ?
Mum: All of them.
Me: Tell me one law that in any way affects your life that has been imposed on us by the EU.
Mum: Well not me in particular, the country.
Me: Ok then, tell me one law that in any way affects the country that has been imposed on us by the EU.
Mum:

I have had verbatim this conversation with my Mum.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by span @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:25 am

thekungfury wrote:
DI Burnside wrote:Mum: I'm sick of being told what to do.
Me: In what way ?
Mum: All the laws they tell us we have to have.
Me: What laws ?
Mum: All of them.
Me: Tell me one law that in any way affects your life that has been imposed on us by the EU.
Mum: Well not me in particular, the country.
Me: Ok then, tell me one law that in any way affects the country that has been imposed on us by the EU.
Mum:

I have had verbatim this conversation with my Mum.

Me too. She went off for ages and come back with the example of an EU law about banning a weed killer, which she didn't like and which, with a moment's research, we established had been voted down anyway. That was the same day as she said to 3 year old spanlet, regarding Paw Patrol, "if they were in this country they'd be 25% black, 50% asian and half of them would be women!"

I agree that the newspapers still have a lot of influence. The one that I've only recently realised is a total rag is the Telegraph. I always thought it was on the right but still a Proper Paper, but it's tone is not far off Daily Mail, when it comes to Brexit and "the people".
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:42 am

span wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
DI Burnside wrote:Mum: I'm sick of being told what to do.
Me: In what way ?
Mum: All the laws they tell us we have to have.
Me: What laws ?
Mum: All of them.
Me: Tell me one law that in any way affects your life that has been imposed on us by the EU.
Mum: Well not me in particular, the country.
Me: Ok then, tell me one law that in any way affects the country that has been imposed on us by the EU.
Mum:

I have had verbatim this conversation with my Mum.

Me too. She went off for ages and come back with the example of an EU law about banning a weed killer, which she didn't like and which, with a moment's research, we established had been voted down anyway. That was the same day as she said to 3 year old spanlet, regarding Paw Patrol, "if they were in this country they'd be 25% black, 50% asian and half of them would be women!"

I agree that the newspapers still have a lot of influence. The one that I've only recently realised is a total rag is the Telegraph. I always thought it was on the right but still a Proper Paper, but it's tone is not far off Daily Mail, when it comes to Brexit and "the people".

I had an excellent in-laws chat at the weekend. To wind them up I proposed Sajid Javid should be PM and the reaction was predictably hilarious. All the women would be in burkhas within a year.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Turntable @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:59 am

thekungfury wrote:
span wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
DI Burnside wrote:Mum: I'm sick of being told what to do.
Me: In what way ?
Mum: All the laws they tell us we have to have.
Me: What laws ?
Mum: All of them.
Me: Tell me one law that in any way affects your life that has been imposed on us by the EU.
Mum: Well not me in particular, the country.
Me: Ok then, tell me one law that in any way affects the country that has been imposed on us by the EU.
Mum:

I have had verbatim this conversation with my Mum.

Me too. She went off for ages and come back with the example of an EU law about banning a weed killer, which she didn't like and which, with a moment's research, we established had been voted down anyway. That was the same day as she said to 3 year old spanlet, regarding Paw Patrol, "if they were in this country they'd be 25% black, 50% asian and half of them would be women!"

I agree that the newspapers still have a lot of influence. The one that I've only recently realised is a total rag is the Telegraph. I always thought it was on the right but still a Proper Paper, but it's tone is not far off Daily Mail, when it comes to Brexit and "the people".

I had an excellent in-laws chat at the weekend. To wind them up I proposed Sajid Javid should be PM and the reaction was predictably hilarious. All the women would be in burkhas within a year.


They are just so depressing, those conversation. You don't get any glee from them at all, merely despair that this kind of logic is what has voted us out.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by CJ+ @ Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:47 pm

Brexit is mental and depressing, agreed. One thing I'm seeing is the continual invention of what Brexit actually was, back on the referendum.

I think of it like this. Here's the referendum question:

"Do you want to
(A) Leave our current house
(B) Not leave our current house"

And that's it.

Both sides put their points - Side A: if you leave the current house, you could do this and you could do that, and wouldn't you have a lot of money if you didn't have to pay the mortgage, and you'd be free to get another house, and no-one could tell you what colour to paint the new house, etc.

Side B: if you stay where you are, you will definitely keep paying the mortgage, and that leaky gutter will need a roofer, and the shitty living room carpet will still be fcuking orange, but hey. It's a house. Boring but true.

So a bunch of people voted "(A) Leave our house". And now there's all sorts of arguments over whether the new house should be a leasehold or a freehold, a flat or a bungalow or a semi or a mansion, or even whether we should get another house at all. But the fact remains (har har har) that the question was not "shall we move to a massive delightful house by the sea with a private beach and a golf course?", it was "Shall we leave our current house?"

What I perceive on sosh meeja is that Leavers/Brexite(e)rs are getting very nervous/impatient.

Nervous: they've clicked onto the fact that what they're actually looking at is not a lovely mansion but is actually a cardboard box under Spaghetti Junction unless we get a wiggle on negotiating the lease on that crappy flat in the high-rise
Impatient: looking forward to spending the mortgage money on a big telly and a holiday and a leased poverty-spec 3-series beemer

Also. I'm enjoying the absolute shit out of the Conservative Party tearing itself apart in public.
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