Some Brexit

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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:56 pm

tanglerat wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
tanglerat wrote:they'll have nobody else to blame.

You think?


They can try blaming May, the EU, Remainers, whoever they like. But they're the ones in power now. Buck stops with them.

You see a scenario where Boris puts his hands up and says "I messed up, folks. It's all on me"? Of course they're going to blame everyone under the sun.

The good thing is the rabid Leave voters now have nobody they can legitimately blame. They have to own it now.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by ttwiggy @ Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:09 pm

Greg66 wrote:
minimoog wrote:Socmed is a fcuking nightmare right now with every gammon in the land running rampant with glee. Dark times ahead.


Likewise NPE on PH. Quite happy to have been banned TBH as I don’t think I’d last a day in there right now.


What did they ban you for Gregg? Complaints from one of the 'freedom of speech, there's no such thing as offensive' brigade?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by desertweasel @ Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:47 pm

thekungfury wrote:
tanglerat wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
tanglerat wrote:they'll have nobody else to blame.

You think?


They can try blaming May, the EU, Remainers, whoever they like. But they're the ones in power now. Buck stops with them.

You see a scenario where Boris puts his hands up and says "I messed up, folks. It's all on me"? Of course they're going to blame everyone under the sun.

The good thing is the rabid Leave voters now have nobody they can legitimately blame. They have to own it now.

already setting up to blame the EU, he has mentioned it 3 times in the last 2 days, got Cummings written all over it.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:07 pm

ttwiggy wrote:
Greg66 wrote:
minimoog wrote:Socmed is a fcuking nightmare right now with every gammon in the land running rampant with glee. Dark times ahead.


Likewise NPE on PH. Quite happy to have been banned TBH as I don’t think I’d last a day in there right now.


What did they ban you for Gregg? Complaints from one of the 'freedom of speech, there's no such thing as offensive' brigade?


Arguing (loosely) with someone (NoNeed - aka ypauly). The offending comment was something like "we know you're stupid. There's no need to keep proving it". NoNeed quoted it, responded with a smiley, then the next day I get an email saying I'm out. My guess is a bit of a pack attack from precisely the group you identify by way of reports to the mods. And if I had to guess, I suspect Isaac Hunt might have had a hand in it, because she (I am fairly sure) got me a one month spell in the cooler earlier in the year (which was deserved, I admit). This spat had nothing to do with her but she is aligned politically with NoNeed.
Last edited by Greg66 on Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by ttwiggy @ Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:45 pm

Point of order though, NoNeed is stupid, so it's simply a statement of fact.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:13 pm

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Re: Some Brexit

Post by S1K @ Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:04 pm

Clown Ice Skater #4 wrote:
Just remember I got banned because someone else called me a cnut and evaded the swear filter to do it.

Seems reasonable
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:31 am

S1K wrote:
Clown Ice Skater #4 wrote:
Just remember I got banned because someone else called me a cnut and evaded the swear filter to do it.

Seems reasonable


<Nods sagely>
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Turntable @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:43 am

Isn't all this shenanigans destined to follow the same pattern over and over again?

1) Boris marches of to the EU with his list of demands
2) EU says "Don't be ridiculous"
3)Boris says "Okay, no deal it is then"
4)Parliament says "No way Boris, stop being a prick"
5) Brexit gets kicked down the road
6)Farage says "I could 100% definitely do better"
7) Boris shuffles off stage in place of the next liar who thinks that inexplicably all his predecessors forgot to ask the right questions
etc etc etc
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Some Brexit

Post by Doctor Congo @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:48 am

Turntable wrote:Isn't all this shenanigans destined to follow the same pattern over and over again?

1) Boris marches of to the EU with his list of demands
2) EU says "Don't be ridiculous"
3)Boris says "Okay, no deal it is then"
4)Parliament says "No way Boris, stop being a prick"
5) Brexit gets kicked down the road
6)Farage says "I could 100% definitely do better"
7) Boris shuffles off stage in place of the next liar who thinks that inexplicably all his predecessors forgot to ask the right questions
etc etc etc


Yes except that I think this time it’ll be no deal, parliament will vote it down and it’ll go to a general election. Then all bets are off. I’m hoping for a big swing to Lib Dem forcing a coalition govt, which will ultimately remain.

Edited to add Boris’ majority is so slim he will very likely lose any election.
Last edited by Doctor Congo on Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:51 am

Doctor Congo wrote:
Turntable wrote:Isn't all this shenanigans destined to follow the same pattern over and over again?

1) Boris marches of to the EU with his list of demands
2) EU says "Don't be ridiculous"
3)Boris says "Okay, no deal it is then"
4)Parliament says "No way Boris, stop being a prick"
5) Brexit gets kicked down the road
6)Farage says "I could 100% definitely do better"
7) Boris shuffles off stage in place of the next liar who thinks that inexplicably all his predecessors forgot to ask the right questions
etc etc etc


Yes except that I think this time it’ll be no deal, parliament will vote it down and it’ll go to a general election. Then all bets are off. I’m hoping for a big swing to Lib Dem forcing a coalition govt, which will ultimately remain.

Edited to add Boris’ majority is so slim he will very likely lose any election.


This is my line of thinking too
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:00 am

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Re: Some Brexit

Post by CJ+ @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:18 am

Clown Ice Skater #4 wrote:I'm not sure he has any choice but to call an election though.

That's old politics. This time last year, I'd have agreed 100%.

This is new politics, where "who the fcuk knows what will happen" is the norm now.

Anything and everything is on the table, up to and including Special Advisor to the Prime Minister Without Portfolio, Lord Nigel of Farage.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by minimoog @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:11 am

I think with with the power of Cummins/CA/Russia behind him Boris will get in with a GE simply due to the power of social media targetting. That campaign is already well underway and the opposition just don't have an answer to it. That coupled with fcuking Corbyn means I think a Lab+Lib Dem protest vote won't be enough to deny Con a majority.

Would love to be wrong of course.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by CJ+ @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:15 am

Worth remembering that the LDs have ruled out a coalition with Labour.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:29 am

Clown Ice Skater #4 wrote:I'm not sure he has any choice but to call an election though.

I’ve half switched off because I’m just sick of it all but is that right? Can’t he just carry on until the fixed term has run out, barring a successful vote of no confidence?

And does Parliament have to vote to allow No Deal? Is that a legal requirement?

This is such a perfect time for Labour to win votes. Ditch Corbyn and install someone like Tom Watson. He can declare “we’re moving back to the centre” and he’ll romp home. It won’t happen but it really should.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by DI Burnside @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:41 am

Why does a vote of no confidence from the opposition change anything ?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:44 am

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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:36 am

Clown Ice Skater #4 wrote:
Agree, the whole thing is just so wearyingly awful.


Completely agree. For the first time since it all kicked off in 2016 I feel utterly disengaged from it. Almost as if I have now come to terms with the fact that I am strapped into a seat on a runaway train driven by a madman. Or am in freefall, but aiming for a specific spot on the ground. Oh well, let's see where it ends up, sort of thing.

I can't see Boris voluntarily calling a GE before he's taken us out of the EU. I think his gameplan is to achieve that, thereby neutralise Farage and Corbyn, and increase his majority.

Not getting us out by 31st Oct, or getting us out on same variant of May's deal which is dressed up to seem different but isn't will probably cost him a NC vote and lead to a GE. fcuk knows how that will play out.

I feel that Peak Corbyn is behind us now, but equally I feel that Momentum has its claws so deeply embedded into the Labour party's structures that the only way Corbyn 's tenure will end is with a wooden box with him in it. And he will be succeeded by that odious Marxist McDonnell, who is IMO an even worse prospect that Corbyn, rather than someone sensible and centrist like Watson. The big party infrastructure (money, campaigners, doorsteppers at grass roots level) is the core reason we won't see huge volumes of defections of Labour (or Cons) MPs.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Dirk @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:09 pm

By the time BoJo has had a go at negotiation, even if parliament rejects the deal and no-deal, there will not be time for a GE before we leave because I can't see the EU giving another extension

Possibly the only way they would give an extension is if we promise to hold another referendum (because they would hope that would vote Remain.

To call a GE, there would have to be a vote of no confidence, which BoJo would probably win (just)

So a vote against No-Deal is probably meaningless (because they would also vote against the deal and Remain)

So unless BoJo succeeds, or Parliament votes for another referendum, I think it will be No-Deal

p.s. Moog, Russia won't support BoJo in the same way they did Trump, he has pissed them off quite a lot. They would easily prefer Corbyn. One of Bojos more memorable quotes was
President Putin was a “ruthless and manipulative tyrant despite looking a bit like Dobby the House Elf from Harry Potter"

They wanted Brexit but they would always support Corbyn (who is also a Brexiteer in his inner heart)
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:55 pm

Dirk wrote:p.s. Moog, Russia won't support BoJo in the same way they did Trump, he has pissed them off quite a lot. They would easily prefer Corbyn.

Russia supports whatever hurts EU the most (UK leaving) and hurts UK the most (No Deal). I don’t think they care how/who does it.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by DI Burnside @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:12 pm

Dirk wrote:To call a GE, there would have to be a vote of no confidence


Why would a vote of no confidence trigger a GE ?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by desertweasel @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:28 pm

DI Burnside wrote:
Dirk wrote:To call a GE, there would have to be a vote of no confidence


Why would a vote of no confidence trigger a GE ?


It might not but the government has only 2 weeks to show that they can form a government and have that govt voted on, so unless the numbers change it triggers an election.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by DI Burnside @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:30 pm

desertweasel wrote:
DI Burnside wrote:
Dirk wrote:To call a GE, there would have to be a vote of no confidence


Why would a vote of no confidence trigger a GE ?


It might not but the government has only 2 weeks to show that they can form a government and have that govt voted on, so unless the numbers change it triggers an election.


I really, really don't understand politics.

"Form a governemt", so having a majority either by themselves or with a coalition, that right ?

Who votes on it and why ?

And why does a vote of no confidence trigger a GE ?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by desertweasel @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:37 pm

DI Burnside wrote:
desertweasel wrote:
DI Burnside wrote:
Dirk wrote:To call a GE, there would have to be a vote of no confidence


Why would a vote of no confidence trigger a GE ?


It might not but the government has only 2 weeks to show that they can form a government and have that govt voted on, so unless the numbers change it triggers an election.


I really, really don't understand politics.

"Form a governemt", so having a majority either by themselves or with a coalition, that right ?

Who votes on it and why ?

And why does a vote of no confidence trigger a GE ?


In my understanding, there is a vote of NC and if that is lost there is a period of two weeks for the govt to either form a new coalition or convince any dissenting MPs to change sides, then there is another vote by the whole house which, if lost, does trigger an election.
Or 2/3rds of the house votes for an election (this is what May did)
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Dirk @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:28 pm

thekungfury wrote:
Dirk wrote:p.s. Moog, Russia won't support BoJo in the same way they did Trump, he has pissed them off quite a lot. They would easily prefer Corbyn.

Russia supports whatever hurts EU the most (UK leaving) and hurts UK the most (No Deal). I don’t think they care how/who does it.

Russia would prefer damage to NATO even more than damage to EU. And Corbyn would definitely wreck NATO (and possibly do more damage to EU if we stayed in than if we left)
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Doctor Congo @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:10 pm

Dirk wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
Dirk wrote:p.s. Moog, Russia won't support BoJo in the same way they did Trump, he has pissed them off quite a lot. They would easily prefer Corbyn.

Russia supports whatever hurts EU the most (UK leaving) and hurts UK the most (No Deal). I don’t think they care how/who does it.

Russia would prefer damage to NATO even more than damage to EU. And Corbyn would definitely wreck NATO (and possibly do more damage to EU if we stayed in than if we left)


Doubtful.

He could not do more damage to EU relations if he tried. He also won’t damage NATO either. He’s a reactionary but once in power he will change his tune when faced with reality.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Dirk @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:11 pm

Will he buggery. He doesn't recognise reality, and if elected would believe he has widespread support for all his crazy ideas. He is in a position of responsibility but doesn't act like it now

He would do immense damage to our relationships with all countries and to the EU and NATO
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by S1K @ Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:37 pm

Maybe not all countries Dirk.

Our invigorated alliances with Cuba and Venezuela could herald the start of a new world order.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Dirk @ Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:50 am

S1K wrote:Maybe not all countries Dirk.

Our invigorated alliances with Cuba and Venezuela could herald the start of a new world order.

True, and possibly North Korea too
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