Some words - cars

General car gossip.

Re: Some words - cars

Post by Dirk @ Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:49 pm

Il Duce wrote:
Tumescent Acorn wrote:The 3.2 and 3.4 seem much more reasonable.


They are the ones that go bang- google porsche d-chunk
Also in Boxsters the IMS goes pop and terminates the engine.

Just be wary ok?

Buy a nice relaible TVR instead. As it happens...
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:13 pm

Arthur Scherbius wrote:
Il Duce wrote:
Tumescent Acorn wrote:The 3.2 and 3.4 seem much more reasonable.


They are the ones that go bang- google porsche d-chunk
Also in Boxsters the IMS goes pop and terminates the engine.

Just be wary ok?

Buy a nice relaible TVR instead. As it happens...


Yes. But only a V8 one.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Dirk @ Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:28 pm

Il Duce wrote:
Arthur Scherbius wrote:
Il Duce wrote:
Tumescent Acorn wrote:The 3.2 and 3.4 seem much more reasonable.


They are the ones that go bang- google porsche d-chunk
Also in Boxsters the IMS goes pop and terminates the engine.

Just be wary ok?

Buy a nice relaible TVR instead. As it happens...


Yes. But only a V8 one.

Or a speed 6 that has the upgraded head
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:27 pm

Arthur Scherbius wrote:
Il Duce wrote:
Arthur Scherbius wrote:
Il Duce wrote:
Tumescent Acorn wrote:The 3.2 and 3.4 seem much more reasonable.


They are the ones that go bang- google porsche d-chunk
Also in Boxsters the IMS goes pop and terminates the engine.

Just be wary ok?

Buy a nice relaible TVR instead. As it happens...


Yes. But only a V8 one.

Or a speed 6 that has the upgraded head


ok, just not the T350Cvnt then ok? because the rest of it is a fragile as a virgin anorexics hymen.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Dirk @ Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:43 pm

Il Duce wrote:
ok, just not the T350Cvnt then ok? because the rest of it is a fragile as a virgin anorexics hymen.

Never had a 350 so I don't know but the Tuscan is fine.

I do note that pretty much every car you seem to have owned seems to have been fragile. You don't think you have been, you know, driving like an Italian?
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Pigeon @ Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:52 pm

Arthur Scherbius wrote:
TKF wrote:My dad bought a Boxster a few years back. Only a 2.5 and it was slow but fun. Cheap too. Think he paid £7.5k and sold it for £5.5k 3yrs later. Anyway down at the golf club the ribbing was always "Couldn't afford a proper Porsche then?". It was generally good natured but he reckons deep down a lot of them seriously thought that way.

Porsche cannot kill the golden goose by making a car better than the 911. It must piss off the engineers royally.


I think Top Gear bear some responsibility for that perception. I have never driven a Boxster so I can't compare, but loads of people have told me it handles much better than the 911. As you say they have just fixated on these "911 is their premium car" and "911 must be rear engined" concepts.

" engine at the back, is a pretty neat way of packaging things up since you can get more into a given length of vehicle than say a mid engine"
Is it? I would have said a front engined car gives you more usable space for the same length of car. To make a car look right you need about the right space for an engine at the front. Then the back is a much better shape for putting bags


Rear engine RWD is the same in terms of packaging as front engine FWD. You have a box with seats in and you glue a box with oily bits in onto one end of it. Putting the box of oily bits at the back is easier because it doesn't have to steer and have CV joints. It's ideal for making a cheap-ass People's Car that basically just has to move. If they don't like it they can always walk. It saves lots of effort which you can then use for killing Jews instead.

It also means that when you are getting better after everyone else has finished kicking the shit out of you and you feel up to having some fun again, it is easy to glue on some bigger oily bits and make it move fast. The trouble is that you are then moving fast with a great big heavy lump of metal hanging out of your arse, and when you want to change direction the great big heavy lump of metal gets impatient and tries to go in front. This is not useful unless you are unnaturally fond of ditches.

One way around this is to put it in front in the first place. That way when you want to change direction it just gets obstinate and tries not to, which has the advantage that you can look at the ditch while you are going into it. This is not all that much of an advantage, but it sometimes helps a bit.

The other way is to take some of the seats out of the main box and put the big heavy lump in there instead. That is great, because it is now too confused to be either obstinate or impatient and just goes where you tell it to. The disadvantage is that it makes drunk men off the internet start singing songs about wearing a frilly bra, but that's up to them if they like that sort of thing.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Dirk @ Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:59 pm

But Pigeon you ignore the aesthetics (as you usually do). To make a sports car look good it has to have a bonnet. Large bonnets look very good. That space is ideal for the engine.

You don't need so much elongation at the back to make it look good. But it is enough for luggage

This is why the 911 has fcuk all luggage space
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Pigeon @ Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:42 pm

The aesthetics of the 911 are not, I would suggest, the most solid thing to base any argument on, seeing as how some 911s look very good indeed and others look like a Lego model of an alien's shit. Unless the argument is to do with how wide a band one car can occupy on the scale from gorgeous to hideous.

The 911 has fcuk all luggage space because an elephant sat on the bonnet and someone put the spare wheel in there. The Beetle managed to avoid pachydermatous frontal compression and accordingly has quite a respectable sized hole.

What I'm on about is that the 911 is what you get when you take something that was designed on the basis that as long as it moved and was easy to make that was all that really mattered, and stick a bigger rubber band in it without regard for matters like mass distribution and polar moment of inertia which now that it goes faster are a lot more important. Whereas the Boxster is what you get when you do consider those matters and take the trouble to relocate the rubber band accordingly. In terms of overall outline they don't really look all that much different, but one doesn't handle and the other does.

You then get crying engineers who aren't allowed to exploit the full capabilities of the one that does handle because the marketing department are in love with the drunk men on the internet who take the piss out of it for no reason.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by deev @ Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:53 pm

Given how good the 911 seems to be at Le Mans I often wonder of its all that much of a problem really, I know all the equations etc and havent driven a 911 but the way some folk go on youd think they killed everyone that ever set foot in them. It seems that the actual real world consequences of the engine being in the wrong place arent all that bad these days with modern suspension, massive wheels and modern rubber and it does give better traction off the line. Plus the folk that buy them can justofy it as "its got 4 seats love!"

Plus, lets face it, the weight behind the rear axle is probably slightly counter balanced by the guts of the middle aged men who buy them anyway.

The type of folk who will spend £4k to buy a carbon front dozzle widget and save 4grams whilst being 30kgs overweight themselves.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Pigeon @ Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:57 pm

deev wrote:Given how good the 911 seems to be at Le Mans I often wonder of its all that much of a problem really, I know all the equations etc and havent driven a 911 but the way some folk go on youd think they killed everyone that ever set foot in them. It seems that the actual real world consequences of the engine being in the wrong place arent all that bad these days with modern suspension, massive wheels and modern rubber and it does give better traction off the line.


Oh, sure, I won't deny I am overemphasising things for effect. Certainly they are far more tractable these days than they used to be. The engineers have done a marvellous job. But I am sure they would agree that it is not exactly good engineering - as in the right way to go about solving a given problem - to take a fundamentally unsuitable design that was originally intended as a cheap and simple way to make a family runabout and then apply huge complexity of sticky tape and string (and active rear-wheel steering) to mask its inherently unsuitable characteristics, as opposed to starting with a layout that is well behaved by nature and does not need to be fought every step of the way to make it do what you want.

One could also argue that it is much more at home on the track in any case as the conditions are much more predictable. You know what the corners are like and you can plan how to take them and then execute the plan as planned, without the risk of suddenly finding it doesn't suit something you weren't expecting to be there and coming unstuck when you try and change it.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by deev @ Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:33 pm

All sports car are compromised in some way though, a 458 isnt the same beast as an f1 car or even a gt3 version of the same car, theyre all hampered by trying to be incredibly fast and awesome but still be comfortable for your average person to be able to drive around on the UK's crippled roads. The engine in the rear is just a different compromise to work around stemming from a historical anachronism. Same as having massive wedges chopped out of the side of cars and ruining the rigidity because we demand doors. I think that if you're designing a balls out racer then yeah its probably a daft place to start but porsche arent really, theyre designing a car thats desirable to sell to folk to drive on the road and history is a large part of that in the case of the 911.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Il Duce @ Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:36 am

Arthur Scherbius wrote:
Il Duce wrote:
ok, just not the T350Cvnt then ok? because the rest of it is a fragile as a virgin anorexics hymen.

Never had a 350 so I don't know but the Tuscan is fine.

I do note that pretty much every car you seem to have owned seems to have been fragile. You don't think you have been, you know, driving like an Italian?


Actually the only two that were as fragile as a pensioners hip were the T350Cvnt and the Cvntman, all the others; Ford, Alfa, Bmw Merc and other TVRs were fine.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Damien Thorn @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:08 pm

My car has got nine different speeds for the intermittent windscreen wipers. Is that a lot? It feels like a lot. A bit excessive. I can't even think of nine different heavinesses of raining - and as soon as you get up to "really raining" you'd turn on the full wipers anyway wouldn't you? Even before it got as bad as "raining bloody hard" or "shitting it down".
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Dr Wolff @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:26 pm

Damien Thorn wrote:My car has got nine different speeds for the intermittent windscreen wipers. Is that a lot? It feels like a lot. A bit excessive. I can't even think of nine different heavinesses of raining - and as soon as you get up to "really raining" you'd turn on the full wipers anyway wouldn't you? Even before it got as bad as "raining bloody hard" or "shitting it down".

I'm up to seven
Spitting
spotting
drizzling
spattering
showers
road spray
light rain...

Oh, fcuk it! Don't you have rain detection on your wipers?!
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Strawman @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:44 pm

4. Intermittent then slow,medium, fast. I actually don't feel wiper speed deprived either and never wish for any more speeds.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Damien Thorn @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:22 pm

Well I only use alternate intermittent speeds anyway! I literally never wipe my windscreen at an even-numbered speed. And if it's only raining a bit I don't even use intermittent - I just flick the stalk to make it wipe when I want it to!! Hahahahaah hahaaha ha!! >cackles into silence<
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Strawman @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:29 pm

Damien Thorn wrote: And if it's only raining a bit I don't even use intermittent - I just flick the stalk to make it wipe when I want it to!!


Same, doing that plus rainx (or equiv. product) means I rarely have the wipers switched on.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Damien Thorn @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:33 pm

Strawman wrote:
Damien Thorn wrote: And if it's only raining a bit I don't even use intermittent - I just flick the stalk to make it wipe when I want it to!!


Same, doing that plus rainx (or equiv. product) means I rarely have the wipers switched on.

And not only that, but I've never even used the low range gearbox on my car. Or plugged anything into the power socket hidden in the bottom of the central armrest.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Käsemeister @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:26 pm

Damien Thorn wrote:Or plugged anything into the power socket hidden in the bottom of the central armrest.


>gasp<
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Pigeon @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:33 pm

Just build this and you have a number of wiper speeds limited only by the number of atoms in the track of the KNOB. You could wipe and wipe and wipe for the rest of your life and never use the same one twice.

wiper-speed-control.png
wiper-speed-control.png (6.41 KiB) Viewed 14369 times
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Babysealclub @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:21 pm

Pigeon wrote:The aesthetics of the 911 are not, I would suggest, the most solid thing to base any argument on, seeing as how some 911s look very good indeed and others look like a Lego model of an alien's shit. Unless the argument is to do with how wide a band one car can occupy on the scale from gorgeous to hideous.



Last week, I bought a 964 targa almost solely on the basis of its aesthetics. A lot of my car purchases have been heavily influenced by my desire to own a car with a particular characteristic, sound or, in the case of the Porsche, mostly the sweep of the rear windscreen. I had to have that in my life & so, I bought one. I like cars that make me smile when I catch a glimpse of them parked on the drive outside my home.

My - to me - achingly beautiful C4 does that right now and that's good enough for me to own one.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Pigeon @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:28 pm

I think that proves the point - they can encompass the entire scale from gorgeous to hideous in the same car depending on who's looking at it. You love the curves of the rear screen, I think the targa roof looks terrible. This sort of thing is probably inevitable with a car that is such an unusual basic shape :)

FWIW I think the early ones looked best - simple and neat...

Image
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Babysealclub @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:08 pm

I like the targa roof because rather than sloping away to the rear, as it does with the coupe, the roof line is parallel to the ground. :)

Image

Though, I don't like what Porsche have done with the latest targa. That rear screen looks too corvettey to me.

Image
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by moleamol @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:31 pm

Whereas I love the latest Targa and don't see Corvette at all. If it's actually just curved glass that you like you could have bought a vase. Though I love it as a reason for buying a whole car!
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by WD40 @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:34 pm

Babysealclub wrote:Though, I don't like what Porsche have done with the latest targa. That rear screen looks too corvettey to me.

Image


Whereas it's the only 991 I find appealing. Very.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by moleamol @ Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:48 pm

I have now seen the roof in action and love this car lots.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Babysealclub @ Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:36 am

Corvettey.....

Image


Although it was the major reason for my purchase, the rear screen wasn't the only reason that I bought the car. That would be sheer madness. I also love the headlights' shape and orientation.
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Paul H @ Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:16 am

Babysealclub wrote:I also love the headlights' orientation.


What? Forward facing???
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:20 am

Paul H wrote:
Babysealclub wrote:I also love the headlights' orientation.


What? Forward facing???

:biglaugh:
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Re: Some words - cars

Post by Käsemeister @ Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:28 am

:rofl:
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