Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Thu May 02, 2019 5:51 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:
Image


That looks absolutely superb!!
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by minimoog @ Fri May 03, 2019 7:06 am

It really does. Fabulous!
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri May 03, 2019 9:07 am

It's so much fun, just brilliant!
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Il Duce @ Fri May 03, 2019 9:17 am

Deuteronomy wrote:

Image



The car looks pure sex.......But look how many toys you have you bastard!
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Deuteronomy @ Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:21 pm

I've done loads of work on the aero on the car recently, I'll post some more pics soon with a write up, but this is at the car at the weekend:

Image
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Käsemeister @ Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:22 pm

That looks fcuking ridiculous.

Want.
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by desertweasel @ Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:53 pm

Looking supearb, can't wait to see the changes as they were done
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by S1K @ Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:35 pm

That’s a massive ducktail there Deuts. Can’t help wondering if it’s at all efficient but I’m sure you’ve put a lot of thought into whatever you’ve done.
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:59 am

[yt][/yt]
S1K wrote:That’s a massive ducktail* there Deuts. Can’t help wondering if it’s at all efficient but I’m sure you’ve put a lot of thought into whatever you’ve done.


*A-woo-oo
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Deuteronomy @ Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:54 pm

S1K wrote:That’s a massive ducktail there Deuts. Can’t help wondering if it’s at all efficient but I’m sure you’ve put a lot of thought into whatever you’ve done.


This is going to sound confrontational, but it's not meant to be - what do you mean when you refer to efficiency?

Duck tails are by their nature inefficient in that they often cause drag, but efficient in that they increase down force and grip - so it depends on which way you're looking at it.

The air flow off the roof of a TR7 is terrible as the rake of the rear screen is so steep, if anything I'd like the tail to be taller but it's a big as the regs will allow (up to half the height of the rear screen)

It's made a noticeable difference to the high speed corners with the arse sitting flatter, giving more confidence to press harder.
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:57 pm

Airflow around the rear deck of a car is complicated and doesn't always flow as you'd assume.

Back in the late 80's/early 90's Audi used to run a vertical 'barn door' on their bootlid - I've seen it much taller, but this is the best pic I could find.
Image

I think it's fair to say those Audi's weren't slow compared to the more conventional looking BMW's and Mercs.

However, you can go too far as they did on their IMSA cars... ;)
Image
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Deuteronomy @ Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:20 pm

Careless Whisperer wrote:Airflow around the rear deck of a car is complicated and doesn't always flow as you'd assume.



Very true - a good mates brother used to do the aerodynamics for Williams so I asked him for some advice and it was "big front splitter, canards in front of the wheels and rising surface on the rear deck as high as you can go"

Which is exactly what I've done :)

ETA He also said flat bottom and a rear defuser - plans for the future...
Last edited by Deuteronomy on Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by thekungfury @ Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:30 pm

Does it reach speeds where downforce is noticeable on a hill-climb?
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Deuteronomy @ Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:37 pm

thekungfury wrote:Does it reach speeds where downforce is noticeable on a hill-climb?


Yes, especially on courses like Shelsley Walsh with a long high speed straight at the end and Prescott with a high speed long corner.

Aero is critical on hill climbs, just look at famous examples like Pikes Peak and Berg Cup cars - not just for ultimate traction, but stability as well (which is what I think you're asking with your question?)
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by thekungfury @ Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:52 pm

Cool. I’d assumed you’d have to be going FAST to notice any difference.

Re. flat underside and diffuser I remember reading years ago that their development was the biggest leap in terms of aero. Something like 50% of an F1 car’s df came from flat bottom/diffuser but it only contributes 10% of the drag. (Numbers probably misremembered)
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by S1K @ Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:56 pm

I absolutely don’t want to be confrontational either Deuts.

What I was thinking is that the air flow over the boot lid of a TR7 is likely to be low pressure and turbulent, given the flat vertical rear screen. Any aero device placed there is not getting anything like laminar flow. To produce the best amount of downforce without being a barn door I’d want to mount a wing as high as possible and as far back as possible, single or double element with a fairly high angle of incidence, with big end plates too. If you look at the sort of wings mounted to specialist autocross cars and Formula Student cars which also operate at mainly lowish speeds like a UK hill climb car that’s the sort of thing I’m thinking of.

Image

Image
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Deuteronomy @ Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:11 pm

Ah yes, I see what you mean, but the regs won't allow it - no higher than half the height of the original rear screen.

So that ducktail is the best that can be done to stick up into into the turbulent flow.
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Dirk @ Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:12 pm

Iirc a spoiler can start to be effective at 60mph, but a wing needs more like 80mph.

A lot of hill climb (and sprint) courses are plenty fast enough. Not sure about deuts but the championship I used to do included circuits too.

You also have to remember that the cars rarely if ever hit top speed, so the top end drag is less of an use. Still matters as does weight, but not as much.
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:17 pm

Deut's ducktail won't really generate downforce, but it will reduce lift and, to some extent, drag.

As I understand it, there will be a pocket of stalled air effectively trapped between the rear screen and ducktail, enabling fast moving air from the roof to straight-line over it - effectively creating a 'breadvan' type shape.

Edited to add this poor quality diagram of the infamous TT, showing how the ducktail spoiler 'spoils' the airflow, creating the pocket of disturbed, slow moving air, over which the faster moving air can pass cleanly.

Image
Last edited by Careless Whisperer on Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:23 pm

The canards would also be more effective if there was a gap underneath, rather than joined to the splitter.

With any wing type surface, it's not the face which 'pushes' the air which has the most effect, it's the surface that 'pulls' the air, assuming the air can stay attached long enough.
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Deuteronomy @ Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:19 pm

Careless Whisperer wrote:The canards would also be more effective if there was a gap underneath, rather than joined to the splitter.

With any wing type surface, it's not the face which 'pushes' the air which has the most effect, it's the surface that 'pulls' the air, assuming the air can stay attached long enough.


You're quite correct of course, I struggled with mounting prototypes firmly enough with a gap and basically gave up for now - the spoiler is pretty thin in that area and needs a reinforcing bracket built on the inside to take the stresses, due to the shape at that point something like a penny washer on the inside isn't going to work.

Ultimately it's a bit of a compromise for now.
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:33 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:Ultimately it's a bit of a compromise for now.

I understand. It wasn't a criticism BTW!
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:00 am

Careless Whisperer wrote:
Deuteronomy wrote:Ultimately it's a bit of a compromise for now.

I understand. It wasn't a criticism BTW!


Don't worry, wasn't taken as such, I find these sorts of discussions very interesting so your input is valued greatly :)
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Picture from the other weekend, no reason to post it other than I really like it:

Image
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by S1K @ Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:49 pm

It does look very purposeful now, like it wants to go fast.
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by dmh12345 @ Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:53 pm

Have just joined the forum as wanted to follow this build. What has happened since the last post and what happened to the other shell?
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by tanglerat @ Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:52 am

dmh12345 wrote:Have just joined the forum as wanted to follow this build. What has happened since the last post and what happened to the other shell?


This thread is nearly twelve years old lad. You may be waiting a while for the next update.

In the meantime, have you got any stuff to help pass the time? What's your interest, are you doing a similar build, can you advise ID on the best welder to buy?
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by minimoog @ Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:44 am

tanglerat wrote:This thread is nearly twelve years old lad. You may be waiting a while for the next update.


Are you on the sauce already Ratty?
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by tanglerat @ Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:47 pm

minimoog wrote:
tanglerat wrote:This thread is nearly twelve years old lad. You may be waiting a while for the next update.


Are you on the sauce already Ratty?


Bloody fine idea. I could go a top-up.
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Re: Triumph TR7 V8 Hill Climb car

Post by Deuteronomy @ Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:46 am

dmh12345 wrote:Have just joined the forum as wanted to follow this build. What has happened since the last post and what happened to the other shell?


Bugger all for a while now, the racing season was due to start next weekend, but clearly won't for a while.

I did have the TR out of the garage yesterday to give it a once-over, ended up changing the clutch slave cylinder as it had developed a weep. (I was sure I had a seal kit, but couldn't find it, so swapped it for a spare I'd already re-built as it's the same unit as the Vitesse)

Last time I was out I managed a 50.29 at Prescott, painfully close to be in the 49's which has been my target for a while now.

I was going to re-build the engine over the winter to up the compression and change the cam, but didn't get around to it.

Incidentally, it had not been started since October, but it fired instantly and settled into a lovely smooth idle.

Re the other shell, it's still sitting on the trailer (all covered) and waiting for me to do something with it.
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