Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

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Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by stuart @ Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:28 pm

Women speak out about Warren Ellis

So he's a writer.

It seems he had a lot of female fans that wanted to sleep with him, and he slept with them.

He didn't force anyone into anything, everything was consensual.

IMO, what he did wrong was that he didn't explain to each women that they weren't special. He probably made them feel they were special knowing that they were just a fling to him. He didn't explain that he had a different woman in his hotel the previous night and will likely have yet another woman in his hotel tomorrow. The women claim that without this information they couldn't give consent and essentially withdraw their consent after the fact.

I kinda feel that the women here were groupies.... They maybe didn't believe they were groupies, but they were. They were also incredibly naieve.

However, I've been having long messages back and forth with a mate about this and his view is very different. He basically thinks its quite right that he was me-too'd, he abused his power and those women are victims.

So It seems to be an information problem. How much information must you present to a potential sexual partner before sex to allow them to make an informed decision and give consent ? Can you withdraw consent after the fact if you discover more information that leads to your ego being damaged or your heart being broken ? My mate thinks you can withdraw consent any time after the act. To say otherwise is victim blaming.

Don't get me wrong, he sounds like an arsehole. He knew what he was doing and it looks like he was cheating on his long term partner too. The whole thing is a bit icky, but I don't think he did anything that wrong.

Where does CTF stand on this?
Last edited by stuart on Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Dirk @ Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:51 pm

Well it leads to the question as to whether any deception is acceptable.

Would rule out an awful lot of dating conversations
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Firkin @ Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:55 pm

I don’t like the way this country is going. Everything gets twisted and it seems nothing is straightforward and simple anymore

The women were one night stands and surely anyone who consents to sex on a first meeting must realise that there is a good chance they won’t be seeing the other party again. I know some go on to see each other again but pretty sure the odds are most don’t.

Even comments people have made in the past when the world was a different place can come back and haunt you later on even if they were perfectly acceptable when made

I guess this is progress but I don’t like it.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by S1K @ Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:04 pm

My mate thinks you can withdraw consent any time after the act.


Not sure I understand this. Like, a week later you can say that although you willingly consented to a bit of how’s your father at the time now you’ve changed your mind and it’s rape?
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by stuart @ Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:13 pm

S1K wrote:
My mate thinks you can withdraw consent any time after the act.


Not sure I understand this. Like, a week later you can say that although you willingly consented to a bit of how’s your father at the time now you’ve changed your mind and it’s rape?


Yes.

Well, I should add "to a degree" to this.

If more information comes to light after the fact, that had she known before the act then she would not have consented, then that consent can be withdrawn later.

i.e. she thought you were rich, turned out you werent. She thought you were single, turned out your married etc
Last edited by stuart on Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by stuart @ Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:20 pm

I think its a tough line to draw between protecting people and personal responsibility that could too easily slide into victim blaming.

I don't know where that line is.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:32 pm

Firkin wrote:The women were one night stands and surely anyone who consents to sex on a first meeting must realise that there is a good chance they won’t be seeing the other party again.


From Stuart's original post it's easy to make the assumption that these women were 'seduced' on a nightly basis, therefore consenting to having sex on the same night that they met him. If that's the case and no coercion, bribery, force was at play, then I can't see how on earth consent could be withdrawn after the fact as they didn't bother to take longer than a couple of hours to get to know the bloke.

However, if it was something that he was building up to over time with regular messages, maybe previous dates etc, then I can see an angle where deception was at play.

But I'm still struggling a little with what crime would this be? Lots of people have relations based on lies, that doesn't make it rape - does it? Lots of people cheat on their partners (is adultery still a crime BTW?), but is that committing any crime to the person who they're cheating with? What about two ordinary people meet in a bar one night, both have a bit too much to drink and have consensual sex. They wake up in the morning and go their separate ways without really knowing who the other was - does it make it any different?

My own personal barometer of fairness (your barometers may vary), is pretty strongly suggesting the need to take some personal responsibility.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by S1K @ Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:34 pm

Reading Stuart’s original link the women aren’t making any accusations of a crime, just saying he’s a shit.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:38 pm

S1K wrote:Reading Stuart’s original link the women aren’t making any accusations of a crime, just saying he’s a shit.

Well that's a given. But the world is full of shits - it's just that most of them are just anonymous people.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Dirk @ Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:44 pm

From that link

It appears Ellis had dramatised the world differently for each of them.
...
based on the account of these women, it appears he was maintaining at least 19 relationships simultaneously at one point in 2009.

Give the guy some credit, that is an impressive extent of story-telling (aka lying)
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by minimoog @ Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:13 pm

I’m sure Rod would have been able to clear all this up for us.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:00 pm

What an odd story. That he looks like he does and has had sex with a women is impressive, let alone dozens.

As far as I can tell he did legal things with women of legal age who gave consent. There's no doubt he's grubby but I don't understand why it's such a big story?
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Dirk @ Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:46 pm

Not dissimilar case but worse . He lied to say he said he was infertile. So woman slept with him

Original court decided it was rape as a result, appeal court has quashed that

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53511729
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:01 pm

Rapist though
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Dirk @ Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:18 pm

thekungfury wrote:Rapist though

Well true

Bet he didn't tell the truth about that either
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Dr Wolff @ Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:32 pm

How about we turn it around? Famous footballer sleeps with woman who absolutely throws herself at him. She goes and sells her story to the Sun for lots of money. So he didn't give consent for that, ergo rape?

I think we need to write a CTF pre-shag consent form and contract. Go for it.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Strawman @ Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:07 pm

Female; and pre-fluffed get home really tired as dawn breaks sneaks into my bed either shut or all locks open, as you gradually switch on the light and put on some music, then several hours later, you pre book a taxi for 30 minutes later have four coffees and get dressed, try to not fall asleep on your own sofa. Male; find nick has added a 3rd keypad to the door, yesterdays code has a new keypad fitted with the entire alphabet, none of your pre-cut keys work, yale, mortice then keypad.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by wi11iam @ Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:44 pm

Strawms I think you May have got the dosage on the dried frog pills wrong again, or you’ve gone into Chinese bot mode again as I couldn’t make any sense of that.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Turntable @ Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:55 pm

Stu, I don't think your friend would be mine.
Shes a bit dippy (notice the assumption?)
I dont think she can see the difference between a moral and a legal dilemma. The moral one is pretty clear cut - the blokes a scumbag and we all want him to get his comeuppance. Something like aids would do. But not prison.
Legally you cant make something a crime because someone changed their mind afterwards. I buy you a beer because I assume you're Scottish ergo very poor. Next week I discover that you earn a reasonable salary and suddenly you are a thief? It doesn't work at all.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Strawman @ Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:13 pm

That's fair TT, try my last 48hrs, and explain that was easier, or at least aknowledge at this point we have never met, the chances of that happening now and you don't know anything about me and stil want to are quite small now, not zero, but unlikely after 12 years of not saying it's at least possible technically still. Robert Jackson I knew before I came to the UK is still my friend he sold me his own car 6 months ago, and neither of us really need to live here anymore, you got the fast car but my current car is more rally prepped while still technically just a fwd ALFA, you couldn't get past me in the fastest car you've ever owned, you could beat my Alfa Romeo on a race track, but you paid enough fo do that, Rob charged me £1300 for my current Alfa GT Blackline, he doesn't post on here anymore, why? Nothing I've said anyway.


*Rob
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Strawman @ Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:17 pm

wi11iam wrote: Chinese bot mode again as I couldn’t make any sense of that.


Well Japanese would help, but I'm not Japanese anyway, but I have more friends in Hong Koong right now than China (although still a couple of those too) see how much effort it is to post anything on here anymore without explaining something else.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by stuart @ Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:23 am

Turntable wrote:Stu, I don't think your friend would be mine.
Shes a bit dippy (notice the assumption?)
I dont think she can see the difference between a moral and a legal dilemma. The moral one is pretty clear cut - the blokes a scumbag and we all want him to get his comeuppance. Something like aids would do. But not prison.
Legally you cant make something a crime because someone changed their mind afterwards. I buy you a beer because I assume you're Scottish ergo very poor. Next week I discover that you earn a reasonable salary and suddenly you are a thief? It doesn't work at all.


She is a he.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Strawman @ Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:34 am

Then he has to be at least gay, and I have to prtend I am just to get out with some marks, that will remain after surgey and I'm prescreened up to President of Japan and I'm not Godzilla, tht was a one time deal and no I don't want a free gay prositute who can get through that or it's just a spare brother and I have one of those whose mother was born in Hong kong but whose father was English. When he was already screened as half me, and I can just seel Neo doesn't sell his body unless one tie it menat the other guy was prepared to say he was my brother, at least or work as a jewler already and doesn't want to do that without that for a free (once fully trained) way to earn a legal income. PLus hes more Asian than me already. Or at least half. Plus that's just haggling down to a hand injury which is visible after surgery I want to keep the scar anyway.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by stuart @ Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:57 pm

Looks like Ellis has lost his Netflix gig over this :(

He was the lead writer for Castlevania (which is fcuking fanstastic if you haven't watched it).
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Strawman @ Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:38 am

He might be a good writer/producer/director we'v but after Weinstein lost his court case no production company wants that kind of heat on them, When is the last time you heard Gary Glitter played on the readio frample? I know his gang song was used on the Joker film, but that was a risky choice IMO.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Strawman @ Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:33 pm

ETA- most of these she made me do it defenses are fairly weak, she was wearing the wrong clothes, too sexy, in the wrong neighbourhood, came up to my hotel room are fairly weak and easy to burst under cross examination. I.E. he thought he was onto a winner and then had to "claim" what the perp felt was owed isn't an actual contract in any court afaik. Even if you go for full weinstein "I'm a poor old cripple act" with zimmer frame prop, versus the same man going to jail and he suddenly walks fine.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:30 pm

Turntable wrote:I dont think she can see the difference between a moral and a legal dilemma. The moral one is pretty clear cut - the blokes a scumbag and we all want him to get his comeuppance. Something like aids would do. But not prison.
Legally you cant make something a crime because someone changed their mind afterwards. I buy you a beer because I assume you're Scottish ergo very poor. Next week I discover that you earn a reasonable salary and suddenly you are a thief? It doesn't work at all.


This is kind of how I feel about it.

Some people (largely men, it has to be said) will say and promise anything to get a shag. The majority of women know this, but sometimes the desire for a relationship with the person who’s promising the moon, the stars and saying they think they’re falling for the woman overwhelms the common sense and she thinks actually he might be different with her. I think this is exacerbated if the man is famous and the woman is a fan because there is automatically a power imbalance.

Being naive enough to think that a one night stand with some famous guy is the start of a relationship does not equate to rape, imho. He abused his power which makes him a cnut, but not a rapist*.


*caveat that the encounters were indeed consensual as stuart says.
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Re: Warren Ellis slept with too many women.

Post by Deuteronomy @ Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:52 am

Clown Ice Skater #4 wrote:
Turntable wrote:I dont think she can see the difference between a moral and a legal dilemma. The moral one is pretty clear cut - the blokes a scumbag and we all want him to get his comeuppance. Something like aids would do. But not prison.
Legally you cant make something a crime because someone changed their mind afterwards. I buy you a beer because I assume you're Scottish ergo very poor. Next week I discover that you earn a reasonable salary and suddenly you are a thief? It doesn't work at all.


This is kind of how I feel about it.

Some people (largely men, it has to be said) will say and promise anything to get a shag. The majority of women know this, but sometimes the desire for a relationship with the person who’s promising the moon, the stars and saying they think they’re falling for the woman overwhelms the common sense and she thinks actually he might be different with her. I think this is exacerbated if the man is famous and the woman is a fan because there is automatically a power imbalance.

Being naive enough to think that a one night stand with some famous guy is the start of a relationship does not equate to rape, imho. He abused his power which makes him a cnut, but not a rapist*.


*caveat that the encounters were indeed consensual as stuart says.


Yes, good summary Clown.
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