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Facebook Live

Post by CJ+ @ Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:23 pm

Seems like people are streaming things on Facebook Live that are a long way from the heartwarming things presumably envisaged by its developers.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... g-daughter

Interesting question raised: should J. Random Person be allowed to broadcast - live to the whole world? Should it be banned just in case something happens like in the linked story?

I dunno. Tricky one. For every bloke murdering his child livestream, there must be literally millions if not billions of streams of people filming themselves singing along to things while doing the washing up, their kids falling off things, weddings, drunk hen parties, etc, and basically doing the stuff FB was actually thinking of when they invented the feature.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Strawman @ Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:32 pm

I think the controversy is that it was copied and placed on Youtube and they took it down as soon as it was pointed out, whereas Facebook took days to remove it. Obviously it is difficult to police what people post because volume, but when something is clearly wrong or against the law (as in murdering a child ) then the host should be quick to remove, or be seen to benefit from the views and discussions that post generates.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Pigeon @ Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:57 pm

Sounds like a usefully effective method of getting stupid criminals to grass themselves up.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Hooli @ Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:40 pm

I don't really see the issue. You can watch war criminals being hung within a few secs on google, how is watching one deliberate death so different to another?
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Pigeon @ Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:41 pm

I reckon that is more disturbing than the Thai nutter. I wasn't aware it was possible, but I presume that since it is, it must be involving state actors; the idea of a government promoting its murders as a public spectacle, with the message that you're supposed to approve of it - and getting that approval (cf. the large and enthusiastic crowds that used to attend British judicial hangings) - is a lot more disturbing than the idea of someone who everyone's going to see as a thoroughly horrible person handing the evidence to convict him to the police on a plate.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Hooli @ Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:13 am

Oddly enough, the last one I saw was on FB. I forget who it was, but it was 5min or so video of his hanging.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by thekungfury @ Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:50 am

Hooli wrote:I don't really see the issue. You can watch war criminals being hung within a few secs on google, how is watching one deliberate death so different to another?

War criminals executed is no different to a father hanging his 11mth old daughter? 'bergers, much?
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Hooli @ Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:12 pm

thekungfury wrote:
Hooli wrote:I don't really see the issue. You can watch war criminals being hung within a few secs on google, how is watching one deliberate death so different to another?

War criminals executed is no different to a father hanging his 11mth old daughter? 'bergers, much?


You're still watching a murder, state sanctioned or not.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by span @ Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:45 pm

Hooli wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
Hooli wrote:I don't really see the issue. You can watch war criminals being hung within a few secs on google, how is watching one deliberate death so different to another?

War criminals executed is no different to a father hanging his 11mth old daughter? 'bergers, much?


You're still watching a murder, state sanctioned or not.

You'll probably have to take our word for this, Hoolz, since this isn't really your area, but they are different and the kid one is worse.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by span @ Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:45 pm

Hooli wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
Hooli wrote:I don't really see the issue. You can watch war criminals being hung within a few secs on google, how is watching one deliberate death so different to another?

War criminals executed is no different to a father hanging his 11mth old daughter? 'bergers, much?


You're still watching a murder, state sanctioned or not.

You'll probably have to take our word for this, Hoolz, since this isn't really your area, but they are different and the kid one is worse.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by desertweasel @ Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:03 pm

Friends in Dubai say that live executions from Saudi are starting to appear on FB live. It is in Arabic so does not get the publicity.
The thing is that this was entirely predictable from the start and it is apparent that FB have no mechanism to prevent it.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Hooli @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:41 pm

span wrote:
Hooli wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
Hooli wrote:I don't really see the issue. You can watch war criminals being hung within a few secs on google, how is watching one deliberate death so different to another?

War criminals executed is no different to a father hanging his 11mth old daughter? 'bergers, much?


You're still watching a murder, state sanctioned or not.

You'll probably have to take our word for this, Hoolz, since this isn't really your area, but they are different and the kid one is worse.


You're right that I don't get why it's worse because it's a kid. I'm not going to make the effort to watch it & find out though, as who wants to watch stuff like that?
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:09 pm

Hooli wrote:I'm not going to make the effort to watch it & find out though, as who wants to watch stuff like that?

No idea

Hooli wrote:Oddly enough, the last one I saw was on FB. I forget who it was, but it was 5min or so video of his hanging.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Dirk @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:27 pm

Also, the rest of us don't need to watch it to figure out why its worse.

As a matter of interest, can you score these out of 10 for how horrific/traumatic you think they would be to watch (in no particular order), 0 is not horrific at all, 10 is worst

Saving private Ryan
Youtube/facebbook video of father killing their own baby son/daughter
Fictional drama where one person gets shot
Documentary of someone being hanged
Documentary of someing being executed by beheading
War documentary of D-Day
Historical film of Mussolini being hanged
You tube footage of toddler being run over in car accident
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by span @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:30 pm

Dirk wrote:can you score these out of 10 for how horrific/traumatic you think they would be to watch (in no particular order), 0 is not horrific at all, 10 is worst

Saving private Ryan
Youtube/facebbook video of father killing their own baby son/daughter
Fictional drama where one person gets shot
Documentary of someone being hanged
Documentary of someing being executed by beheading
War documentary of D-Day
Historical film of Mussolini being hanged
You tube footage of toddler being run over in car accident

This is why you arent asked to suggest forum games.
Last edited by span on Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Disastrous @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:41 pm

At risk of sounding a bit 'bergers here...

Ok, I immediately get and can see why killing a child is worse than killing a Saddam or whoever. Bu-ut...in terms of logging in to Facebook to watch death, I don't see them as all that different. I would find the child more upsetting to watch purely because it's a child and innocent, whereas baddies have done lots of bad things that have led them to their fate. But I don't think there's a huge gulf between wanting to watch an execution and wanting to watch a child dying, is there?

To throw in another example, I think seeing that pilot being burned alive by IS (which I did, sort of accidentally, sort of because I wanted to see what it was all about) was one of the most disturbing things I have ever watched. It made me feel properly sick and unhappy. I can't imagine this Facebook video would have made me feel much worse tbh.

I think it's related to the innocence of the party dying and the intent of the person causing the death. So there's effectively two scales. Innocence of victim and Intent of killer. To score them both out of 5, I would rate Dirk's as follows:

Saving private Ryan - A film so irrelevant. No score.
Youtube/facebbook video of father killing their own baby son/daughter Victim Innocence: 5 Perpetrator Intent: 5
Fictional drama where one person gets shot - Again, fictional so not relevant
Documentary of someone being hanged - Assuming he was guilty, Victim: 1 Perpetrator Intent: 5
Documentary of someing being executed by beheading - For the sake of variety, let's assume innocent, Victim: 4/5 Intent: 5
War documentary of D-Day - Victim: 2 Intent: 2 (on the basis that war is pretty impersonal and D Day would have just been a fcuking mess of shooting)
Historical film of Mussolini being hanged - Victim: 1 Intent: 5
You tube footage of toddler being run over in car accident - Victim: 5 Intent: 1

We'd then need to plot that on one of those graphs where the worst things are in the top right quadrant.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Dirk @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:58 pm

span wrote:
Dirk wrote:can you score these out of 10 for how horrific/traumatic you think they would be to watch (in no particular order), 0 is not horrific at all, 10 is worst

Saving private Ryan
Youtube/facebbook video of father killing their own baby son/daughter
Fictional drama where one person gets shot
Documentary of someone being hanged
Documentary of someing being executed by beheading
War documentary of D-Day
Historical film of Mussolini being hanged
You tube footage of toddler being run over in car accident

This is why you arent asked to suggest forum games.

I'm not asked to post either, but I do that
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by span @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:50 pm

Interesting post Dis, and I agree with some / a lot of it.

I think most people who do watch videos like that do so for one of two reasons: 1) morbid curiosity (like you and the soldier*), or 2) pleasure.

I think the vast majority would be for the first reason and, of those curious people, I assume curiosity is inversely related to exposure and therefore youth, unless the person becomes desensitised. So I think it's worse for morbidly curious / young / "innocent" to see, and potentially become desensitised to, the child killing type of video.

You could also look at it from the opposite perspective - the reasons for uploading those videos in the first place. The main motive in uploading the dictator execution would be anger at the person and feeling of justice being done, I suppose? Whereas the reason in uploading a child murder video....?? I don't know actually, but something more fcuked up.

*I've watched things in the past that I regret seeing, and "properly sick and unhappy" is exactly how I felt afterwards, too. I don't think most people watch that type of thing more than once, I wouldn't have supposed I'd have felt as awful as I did afterwards and to a degree it doesn't leave you. Like the world is just a bit bleaker for having seen it. I actually felt the same when I looked up a notorious Walking Dead clip where a man got clubbed. That shouldn't have featured anywhere in Dirk's fun game of Score That Atrocity! but it was genuinely, horribly disturbing. Anyway. I digress.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:43 pm

On Dis' Blue Whale link there's a story about a 15yr old girl who kills herself to complete the challenge. I googled her name (Rina Palenkova) to see if there was anything else about how she'd come to this position or more about the Blue Whale thing and was suddenly presented with several pictures of her body lying up next to the train track and lying the other side of the track was her head. Genuinely shocking image.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Disastrous @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:46 pm

Kinell. :(
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Dirk @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:47 pm

For clarity, it was only Hooli I wanted to answer my question because I wanted to understand how he saw those differently.

I think most of us would score similarly to Dis
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:51 pm

Disastrous wrote:I think it's related to the innocence of the party dying and the intent of the person causing the death.


I didn't agree with a lot of your post but I do agree with that bit - ALL kids are innocent, to my mind, and this makes seeing a child dying just absolutely awful in a way that pretty much any adult death isn't.

I don't want to watch any internet death but I think we're all a bit de-sensitised to death on screens as films are so realistic now that reality looks like something we enjoyed watching the previous week over a bowl of popcorn and a glass of wine.

The only thing I can personally relate it to is sickness - I can deal with a very sick adult pretty easily but a very sick child definitely leaves a bit of a mark and I'm dreading the day I see the worst outcome in a way I wasn't about adults.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by span @ Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:40 pm

Dirk wrote:For clarity, it was only Hooli I wanted to answer my question because I wanted to understand how he saw those differently.

I think most of us would score similarly to Dis

Sorry yes, for my part I understood you meant that and was just being piss-takey because I was getting steadily more depressed as I reached the end of the 10! I would be interested to delve into Hooli's psyche a bit myself in probably similar ways.
Tokyo Sexwale wrote:The only thing I can personally relate it to is sickness - I can deal with a very sick adult pretty easily but a very sick child definitely leaves a bit of a mark and I'm dreading the day I see the worst outcome in a way I wasn't about adults.

Oh blimey, yes. I'd always think of paramedic as an emotionally taxing job, of course, but hadn't even thought of that possibility.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Hooli @ Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:25 pm

thekungfury wrote:
Hooli wrote:I'm not going to make the effort to watch it & find out though, as who wants to watch stuff like that?

No idea

Hooli wrote:Oddly enough, the last one I saw was on FB. I forget who it was, but it was 5min or so video of his hanging.


I'm in several history groups on FB, now & then such videos just appear as you scroll down. I hadn't gone looking for it.

Dirk wrote:For clarity, it was only Hooli I wanted to answer my question because I wanted to understand how he saw those differently.

I think most of us would score similarly to Dis


My point was mostly around what Dis said -

Disastrous wrote:But I don't think there's a huge gulf between wanting to watch an execution and wanting to watch a child dying, is there?


It's going to look at people dying, not who's dying.


Dirk wrote:Also, the rest of us don't need to watch it to figure out why its worse.

As a matter of interest, can you score these out of 10 for how horrific/traumatic you think they would be to watch (in no particular order), 0 is not horrific at all, 10 is worst

Saving private Ryan
Youtube/facebbook video of father killing their own baby son/daughter
Fictional drama where one person gets shot
Documentary of someone being hanged
Documentary of someing being executed by beheading
War documentary of D-Day
Historical film of Mussolini being hanged
You tube footage of toddler being run over in car accident


If you really care..
0
3-10, depends if I know them.
1
3
3
5
1
2
3
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by thekungfury @ Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:35 pm

Hooli wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
Hooli wrote:I'm not going to make the effort to watch it & find out though, as who wants to watch stuff like that?

No idea

Hooli wrote:Oddly enough, the last one I saw was on FB. I forget who it was, but it was 5min or so video of his hanging.


I'm in several history groups on FB, now & then such videos just appear as you scroll down. I hadn't gone looking for it.

I don't think any groups I'm in would show people being hung. In fact I'm certain.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Disastrous @ Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:51 pm

I'm a member of a "Dogs in the West End" group and last night so done shared a video of a dog making human noises! It was hilarious!!
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Dirk @ Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:45 pm

Hooli wrote:

Dirk wrote:Also, the rest of us don't need to watch it to figure out why its worse.

As a matter of interest, can you score these out of 10 for how horrific/traumatic you think they would be to watch (in no particular order), 0 is not horrific at all, 10 is worst

Saving private Ryan
Youtube/facebbook video of father killing their own baby son/daughter
Fictional drama where one person gets shot
Documentary of someone being hanged
Documentary of someing being executed by beheading
War documentary of D-Day
Historical film of Mussolini being hanged
You tube footage of toddler being run over in car accident


If you really care..
0
3-10, depends if I know them.
1
3
3
5
1
2
3

So watching the father of a child you don't know kill that child, is less traumatic for you than watching a beheading

Wow
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Hooli @ Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:51 pm

thekungfury wrote:
Hooli wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
Hooli wrote:I'm not going to make the effort to watch it & find out though, as who wants to watch stuff like that?

No idea

Hooli wrote:Oddly enough, the last one I saw was on FB. I forget who it was, but it was 5min or so video of his hanging.


I'm in several history groups on FB, now & then such videos just appear as you scroll down. I hadn't gone looking for it.

I don't think any groups I'm in would show people being hung. In fact I'm certain.



I'm in a few WW2 history groups, that kinda thing pops up in them.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by Il Duce @ Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:47 am

Historical note:

Mussolini wasn't hanged. He was executed near Lake Como and then his body was taken to Milan where his body was mutilated and hung up.


Edited for spelling.
Last edited by Il Duce on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Facebook Live

Post by S1K @ Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:55 am

Hanged
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